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The problem is that then people only post in the “one big community” and this neuters the decentralization aspects of Lemmy and fragments the lemmy community as a whole.
I think this is a great compromise where communities remain distinct and granular, but we get a common discussion space for all by default
The users who post in the “one big community” are the users who want their posts to get the most views. Personally speaking, I generally do not want to be a part of a community full of those kind of people (with the exception of if I have a tech support question or similar).
Not everyone wants to be in the most popular space, this “feature” essentially forces everyone together. I believe the social web thrives with a diversity of approaches to community structure.
If you don’t want what your posts being seen, put them in increasingly obscure places, I’m pretty sure we can even have invite only communities, or undiscoverable communities that can stave off eternal september forever.
But this is a social network, it exists for pro-social reasons, it should not cripple itself for the sake of the unsocial. Without agglomeration systems, lemmy is becoming the same as reddit, and that will eventually lead to tyrannical owners and mods, community fragmentation where everyone becomes a mutual hostage-taker of everyone else to the benefit of moderators.
If you don’t want to become part of the community, there are many unfederated servers you can use which won’t even be visible by outsiders, from your description I think that’s what you problem is, you don’t want to be on a federated server. At least maybe one that doesn’t allow outsiders in.
You’ve taken my words and twisted their meaning to create an antisocial strawman to attack. I will not engage.
That said: if you are someone who views the power instance administrators have over their instances to be “tyrannical”, then ActivityPub —a protocol which by designdecentralizes power away from a CEO and into the diverse hands of instance owners— is probably not the protocol for the sort of platform you’re looking for.
I agree, I believe the fediverse as it exists just create many “mini-reddits” the problem still exists and the incentives to concentrate attention into “big instances” and “big communities” will almost certainly recreate the same problem that reddit does. Except with a fragmented audience, the misdeeds and abuses of admins will be harder to detect and more confusing to escape.
So, I agree, without serious steps, taken urgently to disempower instance owners and their lieutenant moderators I believe Lemmy and the Fediverse are already doomed. An aristocratic class of server owners will have free reign to gaslight the small remnant of reddit refugees into believe whatever their interests desires.
And based on your username, I suspect that you are one of these owners, that this is the real reason of your objection to further disempowerment of instance owners and that what I see as a nightmare is in fact your dream.
I am with you as a user, but also an instance administrator. Forcing our hosted communities together with federated communities would take away nearly all motivation I have to host an instance in the first place.
Then just write in a .txt file on your computer using notepad.
You have to understand, the point of social media is to come together.
It is very easy to fragment into ever smaller group, it will NEVER be difficult to be excluded.
It simply IS NOT the problem we are discussing here.
The problem IS the fragmentation that is unavoidable when we try to decentralize.
Without this Lemmy becomes Reddit with extra steps, it creates the “one big community” on the “one big server” it put all the power in the hand of whoever has the key to that instance, and just like that we’re back on reddit.
We have to be able to have a “books” lemmy community that exists accross the whole lemmy very, I want there to be 1500 books community on 1500 servers. I want anyone to be able to post on any of them and be just as likely to be seen.
Because if you don’t then, every topic on the lemmyverse will look like this
And worse, as these mods become more and more lazy or corrupt or just stop caring. That one big community fragments based on what becomes excluded from the “one big community”
So you end up with the second community getting filled up with toxic anti-vaxx and flat earthers, which further empowers the “one big community” because now the alternatives are total poison, the VERY IDEA of leaving becomes unthinkable.
This is the logic we are fleeing Reddit and Twitter from, this is the logic that created the horrible places like Rumble, Gab, Parler and ducking “Truth” , which become empowered by in their toxicity by the centralisation and polarization of the “one big community”
What I’m saying is that you’re basically making an “all lives matters” argument, yes it’s true but that’s just not the problem, you can make private, invite only or communities with incomprehensible and unassociable names. Nothing is stopping your leaving in the lemmy woods and never being seen again.
Allowing Lemmygrad to have it’s own “books” community looks like a feature to me, not a problem. The terminally online tend to overpower any other conversation. IMO, we should work to preserve a diversity of perspectives. If all discussions are forced to be centralized we’ve just recreated Reddit with extra steps.
No. It’s confusing. Maybe make them easily accessible though but still distinct so that the users know it’s two different spaces.
The problem is that then people only post in the “one big community” and this neuters the decentralization aspects of Lemmy and fragments the lemmy community as a whole.
I think this is a great compromise where communities remain distinct and granular, but we get a common discussion space for all by default
The users who post in the “one big community” are the users who want their posts to get the most views. Personally speaking, I generally do not want to be a part of a community full of those kind of people (with the exception of if I have a tech support question or similar).
Not everyone wants to be in the most popular space, this “feature” essentially forces everyone together. I believe the social web thrives with a diversity of approaches to community structure.
Then just don’t make the post a crosspost ?
If you don’t want what your posts being seen, put them in increasingly obscure places, I’m pretty sure we can even have invite only communities, or undiscoverable communities that can stave off eternal september forever.
But this is a social network, it exists for pro-social reasons, it should not cripple itself for the sake of the unsocial. Without agglomeration systems, lemmy is becoming the same as reddit, and that will eventually lead to tyrannical owners and mods, community fragmentation where everyone becomes a mutual hostage-taker of everyone else to the benefit of moderators.
If you don’t want to become part of the community, there are many unfederated servers you can use which won’t even be visible by outsiders, from your description I think that’s what you problem is, you don’t want to be on a federated server. At least maybe one that doesn’t allow outsiders in.
You’ve taken my words and twisted their meaning to create an antisocial strawman to attack. I will not engage.
That said: if you are someone who views the power instance administrators have over their instances to be “tyrannical”, then ActivityPub —a protocol which by design decentralizes power away from a CEO and into the diverse hands of instance owners— is probably not the protocol for the sort of platform you’re looking for.
I agree, I believe the fediverse as it exists just create many “mini-reddits” the problem still exists and the incentives to concentrate attention into “big instances” and “big communities” will almost certainly recreate the same problem that reddit does. Except with a fragmented audience, the misdeeds and abuses of admins will be harder to detect and more confusing to escape.
So, I agree, without serious steps, taken urgently to disempower instance owners and their lieutenant moderators I believe Lemmy and the Fediverse are already doomed. An aristocratic class of server owners will have free reign to gaslight the small remnant of reddit refugees into believe whatever their interests desires.
And based on your username, I suspect that you are one of these owners, that this is the real reason of your objection to further disempowerment of instance owners and that what I see as a nightmare is in fact your dream.
As a user, I very much do not want a common discussion space.
I am with you as a user, but also an instance administrator. Forcing our hosted communities together with federated communities would take away nearly all motivation I have to host an instance in the first place.
Then just write in a .txt file on your computer using notepad.
You have to understand, the point of social media is to come together.
It is very easy to fragment into ever smaller group, it will NEVER be difficult to be excluded.
It simply IS NOT the problem we are discussing here.
The problem IS the fragmentation that is unavoidable when we try to decentralize.
Without this Lemmy becomes Reddit with extra steps, it creates the “one big community” on the “one big server” it put all the power in the hand of whoever has the key to that instance, and just like that we’re back on reddit.
We have to be able to have a “books” lemmy community that exists accross the whole lemmy very, I want there to be 1500 books community on 1500 servers. I want anyone to be able to post on any of them and be just as likely to be seen.
Because if you don’t then, every topic on the lemmyverse will look like this
Books@lemmy.ml - 12.7K subscribers Books@lemmy.world - 6.56K subscribers Books@lemmygrad.ml - 464 subscribers Books@sh.itjust.works - 233 subscribersAnd hundreds more with less than 100 subscribers, where posting could not be seen by even 1% of 1% of 1% of users ?
This puts all the power into the Books@lemmy.ml mods and the lemmy.ml instance owner.
And worse, as these mods become more and more lazy or corrupt or just stop caring. That one big community fragments based on what becomes excluded from the “one big community”
So you end up with the second community getting filled up with toxic anti-vaxx and flat earthers, which further empowers the “one big community” because now the alternatives are total poison, the VERY IDEA of leaving becomes unthinkable.
This is the logic we are fleeing Reddit and Twitter from, this is the logic that created the horrible places like Rumble, Gab, Parler and ducking “Truth” , which become empowered by in their toxicity by the centralisation and polarization of the “one big community”
What I’m saying is that you’re basically making an “all lives matters” argument, yes it’s true but that’s just not the problem, you can make private, invite only or communities with incomprehensible and unassociable names. Nothing is stopping your leaving in the lemmy woods and never being seen again.
That is just not the problem at hand.
Allowing Lemmygrad to have it’s own “books” community looks like a feature to me, not a problem. The terminally online tend to overpower any other conversation. IMO, we should work to preserve a diversity of perspectives. If all discussions are forced to be centralized we’ve just recreated Reddit with extra steps.
I made this suggestion recently. Have you seen the Piefed implementation though? You can see an example of it here.
FYI the second link is dead, here’s another example https://piefed.social/post/1261126#post_replies