Fascinating, isn’t it? Does he think the Democrats just “hate all things fossil” so much that there’s some kind of integer overflow and it flips negative, and oil businesses do just fine entirely by accident?

It’s truly astounding how well right wing propaganda gets folks to believe things that are so completely at odds with his own lived experience. None of us are immune to propaganda, I know, but that whole statement is just…fascinating

Oh that’s her, I was just trying to be insulting haha

Oh I’m totally agreed! It’s all capitalist, jingoist garbage, same as it ever was.

Yeah, I was just on a flight and saw a dude across the aisle that was mainlining all the worst people on twitter. Space laser lady, the racist cat, the nazi automaker…this dude was just liking everything and replying frantically. He was flipping through everything and replying so quickly that I felt pity as much a loathing. It was absolutely pathetic. Dude’s brain is melted.

That was the NFL being political though, this is them being patriotic…is what my troglodyte relatives will say.

To add to this, there’s a great section in Man Without a Country by Vonnegut where he talks about his approach to humor, and he mentions the time he was in Dresden during WW2 as a prisoner of war, while it was being bombed.

True enough, there are such things as laughless jokes, what Freud called gallows humor. There are real-life situations so hopeless that no relief is imaginable.

While we were being bombed in Dresden, sitting in a cellar with our arms over our heads in case the ceiling fell, one soldier said as though he were a duchess in a mansion on a cold and rainy night, “I wonder what the poor people are doing tonight.” Nobody laughed, but we were still all glad he said it. At least we were still alive! He proved it.

A bigger part of the section here: https://www.kcrw.com/culture/shows/bookworm/kurt-vonnegut-1/excerpt-from-a-man-without-a-country

No, my entire point is that they are the ones that showed up: hence why we have a more authoritarian president than perhaps ever before. Between the 2020 election and the 2024 election, the raw numbers of votes dropped for the Democrats, not the Republicans. This whole discussion has been about bleeding support from (some) of the Left.

And yes, this is because Harris and the rest of the DNC shit the bed. That they went too hard toward the right is certainly a factor: and again, to be clear,I’m not saying it’s a good idea to move right. What I’m trying to get across is that abstaining is often indistinguishable from wanting a more right-leaning candidate, because then that’s the candidate that wins.

If it was up to me, see my volcano comment. If we want revolutionary change in the USA, I know which party I’d rather fight in the streets against.

I’m sorry that you’ve misunderstood my point so deeply. Let me more explicit. The Cheneys should have been thrown into a volcano. Harris did a shit job. We all need to organize to get milquetoast liberals/moderates and fascists alike out of office.

Unfortunately, over decades they’ve learned who are reliable voting blocks. Not participating communicates that one sees both options as functionally the same. So if anything, it encourages then to move to the right, which is a reliable voting block.

I’m not at all gleeful about voting for them, and desperately want other options. I’m doing what I can to build parallel structures, engage in mutual aid, and in my day job I’m fighting climate change as an environmental research scientist. Unfortunately, we don’t live in the best of all possible worlds, and the tracks of the trolley don’t change overnight.

Well yeah, that’s exactly the idea. Choose the best of bad options, and try to improve things so that the next time there’s better options.

Not choosing either usually leads to the worse option, which makes it harder to improve things.

There are no easy options.

Yeah, a lot of evangelical churches make it abundantly clear that as long as you love Jesus, you can be a giant piece of shit otherwise and still get into heaven.

As a kid I appreciated that line of thinking because I thought it allowed us to strive for better, accept that we’re all flawed, but still understand we’re all worthy of love.

Instead, as I was a teenager watching these same folks froth at the mouth and cheer for blood in Afghanistan and Iraq, I realized it was a way to reconcile any damn horrible thing they wanted to do. A cloak for depravity and hate.

Something that’s stuck with me for a long time is this quote within a quote about Susan Sontag:

“She was asked what she had learned from the Holocaust, and she said that 10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and that 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and that the remaining 80 percent could be moved in either direction.”

-Kurt Vonnegut

https://inthesetimes.com/article/susan-sontag-and-arthur-miller

You don’t even really have to headcanon it! The Voyager episode 11:59 touched on this, with Janeway’s ancestor being very different in reality than what spotty records had led her family to believe for generations.

Not Lemmy specific. There was US legislation related to the word being deemed offensive fifteen years ago (given the slow nature of Congress, it wasn’t a new sentiment then, either): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa’s_Law

Fair enough that plenty of insulting words could be cast as abelist: but my guess is that a word like “idiot” is old enough that most folks called that in a medical context aren’t around any more. Maybe I’m wrong though: plenty of folks do push against saying things like “crazy” in an insulting manner.

It’s only “demonic” if voting is the only action you take to flight fascism. The reason to vote for the lesser evil, IMHO, is that the less evil option tends to be easier to fight.

What’s the cutoff?

Him not being the Spock we know is kind of the point though, right?

He was a little messier before he got himself together. His human side maybe is less bound by Pon Farr rules, and he’s not yet the hyper competent officer we love in his later years.

He screws up and then that becomes a motivating reason to control himself is pretty compelling, to me at least. He did go a little buck wild helping out Pike in TOS, so he’s certainly still got a wild streak in him.

That’s correct in my eyes, too. I’ve done everything I can to stop the genocide, short of getting a plane ticket to go and fight, and I do all I can to donate to groups like Doctors Without Borders to improve the material conditions on the ground to the extent that it’s possible.

It’s honestly disgusting that so many people don’t even recognize it as a genocide. Again: my only point is that we all need to reflect on how to contribute, even in small ways, to improving things on the ground there. I’m not the original person you were arguing with, I just wanted to interject that self reflection is always a good thing, even if you come out thinking the same way as before. Sometimes there’s a slightly different answer though, or a better understanding of the actions of others, which helps future decisions. Nuance isn’t easy, but it’s important to actually making effective change in the world. That’s been my experience, at least. Take it for what you will!

My point was that we should all reflect, and not just assume that we’re correct all the time.

Nowhere in my comment did I suggest we should only focus on the worst major political party in the USA, nor am I defending the idealized image people have of the states. American exceptionalism has always been terrible propaganda, and the only silver living I’ve seen from this trump era is that more people are aware of how shit most US parties are, and the depths of the myths we’ve been fed in this nation.

I’ll disagree that the other options are 100% as morally bankrupt as trump’s group of billionaires and conspiracy theorists, but if you’re talking about Democrats I’d argue they’re only nearly as morally bankrupt, so it’s far from a defense of the party. Maybe 90% as morally bankrupt? 95ish?

You should reflect because it’s the correct thing to do.

What vote would have - even slightly - reduced Palestinian suffering in the short term. What would reduce it in the long term? Have new actions or moves by Israel changed what you thought months ago? Has the incoming administration signalled moves that will change the trajectory, relative to the current admin?

These are all things we need to reflect on