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Cake day: November 27th, 2024

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  • Are you trying to defend a strawman argument? Are you that daft?

    No, I’m building on “credibility of sources”. And the credibility for the sources of a single person, named Yeshua (Or Jesus, or Christ, or whatever) being the single person responsible for setting off the formation of a sect of judaism is… thin, to say the least.

    In fact, most documents lack any credibility at all.

    Let me ask you: Is it more likely the above scenario as laid out is accurate, or would it be more likely a group of reformists, started creating tall tales about things that happened, and speeches given, and every telling adding more fiction to each recounting, and possible a core group coming up with the “core story” of a man? Like how a group of people developed the persona of “Anonymous” back in 2007-ish? Or, do you believe there is a single person named “Anonymous” who did all the hacking and griefing too?

    Basically, the latter is what I consider to be far more likely. Just like Hercules and John Mastodon. I do not believe either of those individuals spoken of all the time actually existed, and are rather an amalgamation of ideas, into one person. He is a meme. That’s all.



  • And you’re ignoring all the nuance explained there about why historians accept the existence of someone for what reason?

    There’s little to no nuance needed here: Is there evidence? No. Should there be? Yes.

    You keep trying build strawmen as Im not claiming Jesus was divine. Why?

    Because that’s how credibility works. If you start your research at bad sources, you get to bad conclusions.

    Does Xenu exist? I mean, Scientology at one point pre-internet, was one of the fastest growing religions, and they all talk about Xenu. Obviously, Xenu MUST exist, right?


  • I have offered a source with multiple linked sources that explains why this consensus exists.

    It doesn’t exist, though. And, if it did, it’s consensus without basis.

    In reality, any consensus that may exists, does so purely due to environment. Why are we trying to even prove the existence of such a person? Because it’s the dominant religious belief in this country. I’m sure just as much consensus around the existence of Mythras the man exists, too.

    What’s the proof fir this amalgamation idea you are claiming and how of you explain thousands of people all across that part of the world having the same beliefs and names for Jesus within 3-4 decades of his death and please remember this is 2000 years ago so news travelled slowly.

    Because that’s how cults start? Shit, have you seen how quickly Scientology has grown? Does Xenu actually exist?

    News in the Roman empire took… well, as long as it took to walk from city to city. And the cultists were adamant about spreading the word. 100 years after the guy lived, of course.


  • Where do you think this evidence should exist?

    Well, to start… Contemporary accounts.

    Do you think the Jews and Romans kept birth records for the equivalent of working class people?

    Its literally claimed that Yeshua was subject to a census, performed by Romans, who were meticulous in their record keeping. We have no record of a census, period.

    Or, even decrees by Pilate ordering his execution.

    Or even, just, news of some radical with his name, causing trouble. NOTHING.

    What we have are accounts from 40-100 years later, making bold claims. Much like we have similar sets of evidence for the existence of a man named Hercules who was a demigod as well.

    Again Im not claiming there was a messiah. Im not claiming miracles were real so put own that straw bale you keep returning to.

    You are, however, expecting us to believe something with no evidence.

    Ok and how do you think thousands of people all separated by massive distances all arrive on the same name and basic stories if they weren’t based on a single guy?

    Same way all mythology forms. Tall tales told, and retold.

    Why would you think Rome has records of random people?

    This isn’t “random people”… This is a person, who was so hated by his own community,they demanded a Roman governor try, and execute him. And Roman’s kept pretty detailed records about this sort of stuff.

    SOMETHING would have survived. Nothing survived, or more likely, never existed.

    Do you have any actual historical education beyond secondary school? You don’t seem to

    Yes, I actually do, thanks. And none of the mythology should be taken any more serious than any other mythology we study.


  • So you look at biased non-academic resources and then conclude that the belief is not academic?

    “There is no physical or archaeological evidence tied to Jesus, nor do we have any written evidence directly linked to him.”

    And, not even where it should be at.

    But, I suppose we should all accept Hercules lived, was a demigod, and was a great warrior, because a lot of people wrote about him.

    And, while we’re at it, we all know, and should accept as fact, that Mythras lived, because a lot of people wrote about him, and how he died, and rose again to save his people.


  • All Im claiming is Yeshua existed and he was a rabbi around Galilee.

    And yet, you have zero evidence to support that claim. In reality, there were about 100 Yeshua’s (It was a common name), who were rabbis, in that region.

    And some of the more fantastic stories were cribbed from already extant mythology.

    Its a lot like the “evidence” of “divine inspiration” for the NT is “Well, it matches the OT!!” No shit, the people writing the NT were familiar with the OT, and made attempts to do so.

    So, when we get down to brass tacks, this “Yeshua” character was likely an amalgamation of several people. Like John Mastodon.

    Loads of people talk about John Mastodon right now. Does that mean John Mastodon existed or exists?

    Spoiler: yes, John Mastodon exists, and peace be upon him, and may he grace us with neverending blessings delivered by his Arch Angel - ActivltyPub.


  • We have things that other people who may or may not have known Aristotle claim Aristotle wrote.

    We have many things, written right about the same time, all making the same claims, about what Artistotle wrote.

    We do not have congruent, contemporary writings about Jesus/Yeshua.

    Why not try reading the link rather than expounding upon a false understanding?

    I did. And there is not evidence of his existence, as your link stated. Does that mean Yeshua, the individual, did not exist? No. But, it’s also not on us to prove he did not exist! That’s impossible (Proving a negative).

    What we can say: There is no evidence he existed, even in places it should exist. And, exceptional claims (Such as a virgin birth, son of god, major political decisions) require exceptional evidence.

    You cannot prove there isn’t a teapot orbiting the sun, either. However, we can safely assume there is not, until such evidence has been found to support said claim.

    For example the earliest writings are from around 70CE which is 37-40 years later.

    Fine. The closest writings are from 40 years late. One full generation. Did the prior generation not think to write ANYTHING about this guy? Not even a Roman notice somewhere? A proclamation of all male children being executed? NOTHING. Until 40 years after the claimed event.


  • We have similar things for jesus such as the writings of people who recorded the existence of people who followed a guy named Jesus a few decades after his death.

    Yes, we have contempory, verified sources of Aristotle’s lectures, and writings.

    We have no such thing for Yeshua. The earliest is, as you say, “a few decades”, aka 70 years. That’s two entire generations. Nothing contemporary, and in fact, contemporary documents actually contradict much of what was written.

    It would ge really odd for people around the Mediterranean to all follow the teachings of a guy who they call by the same name who never existed.

    And yet, here were are, writing about a mystical man in the sky… Who never existed, as far as any evidence tells us. And, in fact, whatever evidence we DO find, contradicts the claims made by adherents to that mythology.

    Hell, how many Romans wrote about how awesome on the field of battle Hercules was… Pretty certain a demigod never existed by the name of Hercules.

    BTW, from your link:

    “There is no physical or archaeological evidence tied to Jesus, nor do we have any written evidence directly linked to him”


  • if you argue Yeshua of Galilee never existed you cannot then accept that most historical figures were real as we have similar evidence for the existence of many people.

    What evidence exists? I mean, we have literally multiple accounts and writings by Aristotle… Or Eratosthenes… Who would be, by and large, contemporaries, at this scale…

    Yet for Yeshua? We don’t even have birth records, which would have been meticulous, especially since a census happened at the same time. We can’t even confirm most of the documented events that were claimed.

    In fact, all writings that state he existed weren’t even written until about 70 years after he purportedly died (Which we have no Roman records of the time, indicating even a scenario as described, which is kinda shocking).

    In all likelihood, he is an amalgamation of several radical figures, as most of his story was cribbed from earlier, already extant, savior mythology.