Can I get a tl;dr for someone who isn’t into 3d printing (yet)? I like to know about companies to avoid and why, but it’ll still be a while before I get into 3d printing.
Bambu lab a while ago came out with printers and an ecosystem that was very easy to use compared to other printers for the price. However, there were a few red flags like proprietary parts, software which required the cloud, and DRM chips in filament. Bambu lab promised they weren’t gonna exploit any of that and that they will keep their printers and ecosystem open and all the red flags were just used to aid in user experience like automatic print settings for DRM chipped filament, easy to swap parts, and cloud monitoring and notifications. Despite the promise, they’re still a corporation and thus went against their word and closed off 3rd party slicers and firmwares so you must use their cloud and their software.
You do not own the printers, Bambu does. So now you cannot install third party firmware on your Bambu 3d printer or use a different slicer. Everything you do on your Bambu printer goes through their cloud unless you take countermeasures and use old versions of software and firmware before the lockdown happened and you completely block internet access to the printers.
People saw these big red flags early on and called them out on it saying they’re gonna lock down their ecosystem later on but people kept buying into Bambulab since they were so easy to use and got amazing prints out of them.
Tl;Dr, Bambulab released printers and software that were so easy to use for the price but came with many red flags. Bambulab ended up closing down their entire ecosystem so they have full control of the printers and you are at their mercy if you wanna keep using it.
I never bought a Bambu in the first place because all of this was foreseeable. Bambu costumers simply didn‘t care at the time.
That’s their market my brother bought 3 of them because he wanted to start a 3d printing business (with no additional planning so it did not last). Now I have one and my dad has one. I haven’t actually set mine up because I have my old Creator X clone dialed in and don’t really need anything more. Those two would probably never have gotten started if not for how easy the Bambus are. It took me a month to get decent results off my first printer and they were up and running in a few hours tops.
Those two would probably never have gotten started if not for how easy the Bambus are. It took me a month to get decent results off my first printer and they were up and running in a few hours tops.
I’ve got to admit, I’ve never understood that sort of issue. I’ve owned two 3D printers, a Monoprice MP Select Mini (bought back when it was the only ‘cheap’ printer in existence… holy shit, probably almost a decade ago) and a Creality Ender 3 V3 SE (because it was the best ‘cheap’ printer as of a couple years ago), and both of them gave me decent prints pretty much out of the box. After bed leveling, obviously, but without any other weird hardware adjustment or excessive experimentation with slicer settings.
I feel like the vaunted ‘superior ease of use’ of the Bambu stuff is overblown, but IDK, maybe I’ve just been lucky.
Bambu are not the only easy to setup anymore, but they did influence the trend.
They also have MakerWorld/Bambu handy that makes it really easy to start a print from anywhere.
So they are extremely easy to use.
But they are trying to leverage that to close their ecosystem and lock users in with shady practices…
Admittedly I started pretty early on with the commercially available ones and I’m sure things have improved since then but that was my experience. I was fighting it for weeks screwing with leveling and temps, I completely burned through one set of leveling screws and had to replace them before I gave up and took the extruder apart and constructed a jig to make sure the nozzles were even. After that I started getting better results. By comparison my brother was given the exact same model by a coworker of his and he gave up on it because he’s just doesn’t think about technical things the same way I do. When he got the bambu though he was able to just go with it because he didn’t have to really troubleshoot anything.
I’m never watching this video again! I already didn’t watch it, and I’ll do it again!
(please someone correct me if I’m wrong on this)
Doesn’t boycotting Bambu ignore that they are one of the biggest names in 3D printing with a product that is cheaper and better than their main competitor (Prusa). Frankly, I don’t think anyone is going to spend 2x the amount for literally a worse product (Bambu P2S @ $550 vs Prusa Core One @ $999)
I get all the arguments about the repairability and longevity of Prusa printers, but when someone is saving for months to buy a luxury item I simply cannot see them making all those sacrifices
I get your point, but when a part broke on my Prusa, I jury rigged it, downloaded and printed a replacement part and swapped out the broken part for the (improved) new one. With many other brands it would have been an expensive purchase and I would have had to wait for parts to arrive.
Turns out, the 3D printing world is thankfully NOT a duopoly. You have Qidi (their Q2 is very competitive from what I have heard), Sovol (makes a lot of good budget printers), Elegoo (lots of people love the Centauri Carbon), and even Voron machines if you’re into those! And a majority of the competitors make good machines that can be on par, and often times cheaper, than Bambu’s machines.
Additionally, Prusa not only is better for longevity, but you will also get far better customer support (Bambu’s support isn’t great)
Bambu is no longer to be trusted as they have been hostile to the open-source community, have blocked third-party software that used to work and hardware that people have bought, and no, putting it under a hidden developer mode doesn’t fix the issue. There are additional restrictions like not being able to access your printer remotely without something like Tailscale!
And given that they already have RFID tags on their filaments, I believe it’s a matter of time before they become the HP of 3D printers and block third-party filaments from being used
TY I’m going to look into those. I appreciate the detailed response, hopefully someone releases a CFW for all the bambu users out there.
The RFID thing i feel like could be rectified pretty easily by just cloning the tag (hopefully), if nintendo couldn’t combat that for amiibos, i doubt bambu will be able to.
I’m looking to upgrade my ancient Ender-5 Plus and have been eyeballing Anycubic for the excellent pricing on multicolor printers.
You seem pretty knowledgeable, any recommendations or things to stay away from?
If you buy a Bambu P2S, you don’t really own it. Bambu can see and control each file printed, and are suing anyone that attempts to rectify that change.
If you buy a Prusa Core One, you do own it.
The boycott just makes financial sense.
Excuse my own ignorance on this issue, i was under the impression that in response to the BS they pulled last year they committed to always having the option for a fully offline (but potentially less-featured) printer?
The video covers that “option”.
Oh yeah? Well I’m never buying one in the first place because these problems were obvious.
Same here, and I think it was also obvious to Jeff (from the OP), but I’m glad he bought one because he’s in a position to raise awareness of the issue.
I never let mine on the internet and use lan only using Orca slicer too so I don’t have to worry about Bambu Studio pushing an update to it which probably wouldn’t be an issue cause it was always garbage at connecting via lan anyway.
Let’s add CAD.
I’ve been screaming to everyone I know… Use freeCAD or other opensource CAD systems or free form modelers like Blender.org.
People who don’t know about Auto desk and PTC don’t know how evil those companies are. They’re dinosaurs and need to go. Let’s opensource the future.
I would absolutely love for freeCAD to have complete feature and usability parity with MasterCAM, but it isn’t even kind of close to usability or functionality to the major corporate offerings.
God, I long for the day we get a decent open source CAD program but we just arent there yet. Script-based cad like OPENSCAD is just awful, especially for anything complex and extra-especially for assemblies, and while freecad has improved massively it’s still a very similar UX to Sketchup circa 2009 :(
CAD/CAM is one of the biggest underrepresented areas for opensource software, unfortunately largely because it’s so damn hard. There’s a reason basically every open-source polymodeling system pulls from Blender, and that’s because it’s the only robust opensource option out there that’s usable (though blender UI/UX is notoriously terrible for good reason, even after 2.8 and 3.2).
And unfortunately blender isn’t CAD software. Fun for noodly 3D printed parts and technically you can design functional components in it… but it’s deeply miserable to do.
IDK I’m just screaming into the void. grrgh.
Its not only that the ui/ux is bad. It’s that the people working the project seem to constantly rename, or change tool names which effectively eliminated every YouTube tutorial that came before. I’ve tried several times to get into it, and still recognize how necessary it is that it exists and thrives, so I keep trying. But ffs, be consistent.
It might suck, but if you haven’t, maybe give ImplicitCAD a try: https://media.ccc.de/v/bob2020-110_implicitcad_haskell_all_of_the_things
Hey thanks, I’ll check it out!
Agree. Using freecad coming from Pro-E/Creo /Fusion 360/on shape/Solidworks is brutal.
Yeah FreeCAD has brutal usability. I use it on occasion but if it’s anything overly complex I usually switch to Fusion360
Same. I’ve been trying to force myself to use it but it’s a chore. I’ve yet to get anything usable out of it.
I have made some stuff for gridfinity, there’s a FreeCAD plugin, and a few other small things.
and while freecad has improved massively it’s still a very similar UX to Sketchup circa 2009 :(
I started using OpenDark theme, which I found to look more modern. Also, I believe FreeCAD has some very specific UI-work currently funded (details here), so you should definitely keep your eyes open for progress on this front going forward :)
ETA: Oh, and Blender does have some CAD-plugins - I never tried them myself, but they are supposed to make designing functional components less dreadful in Blender
Ha, thank you. The themeing is not at all my complaint with these tools, but I appreciate the tip! I look forward to seeing what freecad produces, it has a lot of potential but alas, not a lot of funding to make sure the devs can afford to eat.
Last I played around with them the blender cad plugins all use poly modeling, which puts them out of the running for anything more complex than FDM parts. Primarily they exist to either support 3D printing or for simulation/animation of simplified parts. They’re… better than nothing, for sure, but unless you need something specifically given by blender you’d be much better served by just using freecad.
Have you used Blender/FreeCAD as extensively as other proprietary paid software? You might just be used to other software being different. I think the Blender UI is pretty good and FreeCAD is just as capable as any other CAD program. I know someone who models the stuff from tootalltoby CAD Tournaments for fun in FreeCAD and he is about half as fast, but I think that’s fine for being an amateur.
Unfortunately, FreeCAD has some serious functional problems in my experience. I use CAD to make models for 3d printing, and with basically any other option I can make parts significantly faster and better. Also, I have never had an issue with another parametric modeler going back to change a dimension somewhere and it breaking the entire rest of the part, but conversely in FreeCAD I have never had that actually work. It is a complete mind fuck to finish printing a part, find out you got a dimension slightly wrong, and then having to basically start the entire fucking design process over because changing that dimension in FreeCAD just throws a bunch of errors and won’t show you a part anymore.
No, I am not a CAD expert, and I get that. But I can functionally use every other CAD software I have had the opportunity to use (I don’t count Blender for this, there are janky addons but that isn’t what Blender is). FreeCAD is near enough unusable. And anytime people bring up its shortcomings anywhere in the FreeCAD community, they get shit on for not doing CAD correctly, told that FreeCAD is exactly how it should be, and actually you are wrong for wanting it to be any different. I’ve spent countless hours trying to learn how FreeCAD wants me to operate, more than I’d ever spent learning Fusion360, and I still can’t get it to do what I would consider to be the bare minimum.
I think I’ve seen somewhere that you should set up reference values or something so that you can change parameters on the fly without breaking anything, which is insane to need to have to do that to avoid running into the ‘topological naming issue’ that magically no other package had a problem with. I’ve basically stopped using filets and chamfers because those will just destroy any chance I can update anything on the model later on.
The community really is brutal too. I remember reading someone getting taken down because they were asking how to extrude instead of pad while they were on the ‘part design’ workbench
I remember reading someone getting taken down because they were asking how to extrude instead of pad while they were on the ‘part design’ workbench
Why are those even two different things at all?!
Even in the context of having only experienced certain other CAD software a little bit (e.g. SolidEdge for one class in college, SketchUp for making maybe a handful of models, total), FreeCAD really is worse to use. It’s not just the UI, (although it is partly that and it is genuinely worse, not just neutrally different), it’s that stuff just starts breaking whenever you try to do anything even slightly complex (even after the “topological naming fix”), and that the workflow is just annoyingly internally inconsistent.
For example, you can make a sketch and then apply constraints to it and it’s all well and good, but then you extrude it and suddenly you have to declare the height by setting the properties of the extrude instead of using a constraint or dimension. I assume there’s some kind of workaround involving declaring variables in the data table thing I can’t remember the name of or how to access right now, but it shouldn’t have to be that way. You ought to be able to do things like create a cube by declaring an X edge to be the same length as a Y edge to be the same length as a Z edge using the same tool to set both relationships.
And this is coming from somebody who refuses to use proprietary CAD as a matter of principle at this point, and therefore really, really wants to like FreeCAD.
Lol. While I appreciate the insight, “lack of familiarity” is the “skill issue” of open source projects. I’ve got plenty of experience with both, and I’ve regularly used blender for well over a decade now (which is why I dislike it so very much).
Toby models are fun and speed modeling is a useful way to train, but performance in speed modeling does not equate to usefulness as a design tool. We used to do speed modeling challenges in scad, and while a diverting way to build skills, it has absolutely no bearing on that suite’s usefulness when considering things like: complex assemblies, top-down/bottom-up design, rapid iteration, iterative design tools, surface modeling, parametric design… etc.
I know many people who speedmodel in Rhino, and while I respect the hell out of
the masochismtheir skill, it will never be my first choice for designing a functional part when I have other solidbody modeling tools to choose from. Similarly, I’d never use Alibre or Fusion for cosmetics or complex surface modeling of a part. They’re just not the right tool for the job.
Unfortunately the open source options for CAD have to come a very long way before I could even consider using them. Onshape is the only “free” option I’ve found that is bearable to use compared to the likes of SolidWorks and Creo.
I’m very lucky that I never used the commercial programs like fusion360, freecad feels like I’m a fumbling moron simply because I am, not because I need to get used to new software.
I like “I Like To Make Stuff” on Youtube, but it annoys the Hell out of me that he plugs Autodesk Fusion 360 all the time (to the point that he even sells his own course teaching how to use it). On the bright side, at least he uses Prusa instead of Bambu, but still, the Autodesk shilling is almost enough to make me quit watching his channel.
This goes beyond buying a printer. Most people buy a printer and then use it for years. I believe it’s necessary to get away from Bambu entirely.
That means no maker world. That means aggressively discourage others from buying bambu or using maker world. That means calling out online creators who promote Bambu or any of their products. And yeah, it means call out designers who put their STLs on MakerWorld.
I believe it is necessary to send a very strong message that Bambu that does not and will not own the 3D printing community.
SirEDCaLot
The whole Bambu Lab situation isn’t really a surprise. Always stay away from companies that want to be the “Apple” of their niche.
Start “open-ish”, gain traction, start abusing market position, start closing things off, become hostile to your customers…
Like Firefox
Yep. It’s a shame. The overall product is great. But the violation and abuse of the AGPL is unacceptable.
Violation of *GPL is bread and butter for most of 3D printer companies, locking out users out of features they paid for and used is terrible though.
shrugs in PRUSA
Which is why I did not write „all”. I had Prusa specifically in mind. It’s a shame they have to compete with companies that do not follow the rules as much as they do.
If only a Prusa XL didn’t cost more than my car…
Use your XL to print a new car. Problem solved.
In fact I would download a car.
But they said you wouldn’t…
The MK4S costs more than my car.
That’s not an argument against PRUSA.
Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely wanting to learn. What other violations have there been (or are there currently)?
https://github.com/CrealityOfficial/Ender-3_V3_KE_Klipper/issues/13 They all basically use klipper.
Ender 3s originally used Marlin has that changed? I thoughtKlipper required too much processing for the simpler printers like Enders.
Here’s just one sample that came up when I searched for “3d printer GPL violation”
An 8 year old blog post from a resale store linking to a website that no longer exists… It doesn’t offer a ton of clarity :/
There are far more bountiful resources to be found, including GitHub issues with concrete examples. I picked that one because I know that all four of the companies listed are problematic. I do not currently have the time to find more detailed links, but they’re out there.
Very true
Violation of *GPL is bread and butter for most of CHINESE 3D printer companies
The thing is that they’ve dropped the ball. There are quite a few companies putting out printers that are objectively as convenient as a Bambu, for a third of the price, and others, like prusa and Snapmaker that have upstaged them with tool changers, which are way better than MMU machines, with negligible material waste, and orders of magnitude faster for multicolor. The maker scene is also alive and well- Vorons, VZbots, etc. allow you to make impressive machines, if you have some skills.
Can you recommend me a 3d printer or a few different ones to look into?
My applications will predominately be structural things, ie:
- Xbox controller attachments mount for my phone
- decorative guitar hooks
- custom shelving units
- gears for some electronic devices
- custom electronic cases
- figurines
- 3d toys (like mock guns, or just general odd things)
I heard that the Centauri Carbon by Elegoo is a really good enclosed CoreXY printer for the price. The Qidi Q2 is the upgraded version of the Q1 Pro (which lots of people love very much), and it’s s little more expensive than the Elegoo but it has additional features like a heated chamber. Those two would probably be my go-to picks if you want something good value.
However, if you have a higher budget, Prusa’s machines are very reliable, have great customer support, and are upgradeable too! If you get them as a kit you can also save a bit of cost. Their Core One+ prints very well. You also have the Prusa XL, which is large and expensive and has six toolheads if you need it.
Avoid printers by Bambu, as they have been locking down on their ecosystem and blocking third-party software and hardware, and as Jeff Geerling recently mentioned, they have also been very hostile to open-source developers. Additionally, I’ve heard that Creality is also pretty shady company with not-so-great QC.
Another important thing to consider is what filament you want to print with. The Centauri Carbon will work just fine with PLA, PERG, or similar, but engineering-type filaments need a heated chamber like that on the Qidi Q2. The Centauri Carbon also currently does not have a multi material unit while both Qidi and Prusa do
Creality hi combo
Snapmaker u1
Prusa core one
Have to admit I’m out of the loop. If I do have a Bambu printer, can I still use it in LAN mode with OrcaSlicer? Can I still use current firmware or do I need to downgrade?
I am still able to use OrcaSlicer on my Bambu A1 (which was bought before all these shenanigans) and mine is in v4.0.0.0 firmware with LAN only mode enabled. I believe newer machines require a special developer mode hidden deep in the settings to allow third-party software (stupid, I know).
It means you won’t be able to use Bambu Handy (not too bad for my use case though)
There are plenty of videos discussing the topic though. If you don’t have a Bambu printer yet, please don’t go out and buy one. If you’re stuck with one, put it to LAN only mode (or developer mode which is a special hidden LAN only mode on newer versions) to use OrcaSlicer
This video from Louis Rossmann will get you caught up with the topic quickly: Bambu Lab: I’m reposting your code & I dare you to sue me. / Louis Rossmann / YouTube.com
is he often buying 3d printers?
I suspect how many printers he buys matters a lot less than the reach he has with his youtube channel for bambu’s financial reports.
Yeah, Jeff is one of the handful of seemingly decent, upright tech reviewers. He’s pretty trustworthy, so if he says something is crap, a lot of people are going to take it as gospel.
Shame on you for buying it in the first place. Writing was on the wall already.
F off with this stuff. Not everyone who bought one was fully aware of all the potential downfalls.
You should search this guy. I have heard time imagining he couldn’t have such foresight, but if that’s the case even more of a reason to unlike and unsubscribe - there are plenty of tech influencers that did and they are more likely to advise better for other products then.
When I bought my Bambu they were simply the best out there in just a bout every way. other company’s printers were unreliable and Prusa sat around on their laurels for years and even now have only partially caught up.
How were they the best about being open source / transparent? I never saw evidence of that.
They were the best at actually 3d printing. Which is what the device is for when you get down to it.
It’s a choice of values and future thinking. I understand the average user choosing Bambu, but for a 3d printing figurehead knowledgable about the industry and influencing the decisions of others, I think this was a poor choice initially. I bought a prusa probably around the same time he bought the Bambu, knowing full well that the Bambu had better performance specs. It’s not like I was getting blown out of the water with my 3d printing though. Every day I have less regrets about that choice.
“Just about”
Smelled funny from very early on. I wonder if now all those creators on the bambu payrole will pretend like nothing happened. Channels like CNC kitchen or Tom Sanladerer come to mind. But also 99% of all other channels, bambu seems to be sponsoring a shitton of channels. At least Jeff spoke out immediately. I suspect most will keep quiet.
