This feels different though. I may be inadequate at explaining but I will try. Both of those involve a juxtaposition of things that are normal but are odd when conjoined: fucking + … sideways? Christ but… as peanut butter?
Calling out a proper name as in “JFC man!” is more like “oh no, somebody pulled a joey!” (or conversely, “watch out - she’s a Karen!”, MY CHILD vibes intensify…:-P). It specifically pulls up the name, in an intentionally derogatory manner. Thereby it is “cheap”, as it ties in to the aforementioned “othering” effect - which is POWERFUL in its allure and an ever-present bias making up human thought patterns, and therefore needs to be watched out for or it will suck us in.
Ironically I would be okay if this community added an exemption to its rules, like “no othering of a group - unless the group in question is Christianity, because fuck those people, amirite?!:-P” What I cannot stand though is when something like this “sneaks through”. Beehaw does a fantastic job at explaining who they are - with not only mere sidebar text but multiple pages of a help document detailing what the rules are, and how they will be enforced. Likewise, Blåhaj does a fantastic job of not only talking the talk but then walking out that walk, i.e. “please bear in mind that this is a server that is very protective of our minority members and bigotry of any variety will be squashed with great prejudice.” In contrast, this community says “generally “othering” of a group will result in removal/ban.” - except, again, unless the target in question is one of those that the people in power happen to disagree with, I guess?
This is not very Star Trek of us, imho. It does not matter if Christianity is deserving of respect or not - there are a lot of historical reasons pointing to… well… both sides yay and nay there - but what matters is how we treat people - ideally with a spirit of outright welcomingness to all, but failing that, at least with equity and fairness? (or at the very minimum, I would hope, transparency)
I am only middle-aged, but this comment makes me feel “old” for the first time in my entire lifetime. Or rather, the thoughts that it evokes does. I remember when the MeToo movement came out, and people said the same thing then. Likewise the racist comments before them. Likewise the anti-LGTBTQI+ comments that I have heard over the course of my entire life. “Get over it, it’s not that bad”, “people are just having a bit of fun, it has nothing to do with you, f**got”, and so on.
Elsewhere I have heard on this thread “it’s not happening”, “okay fine it’s happening but it’s okay”, “okay it’s not okay but so what”… and I remember ALL of this, e.g. from Trump’s first (and second) impeachment trials. This event quantitatively is not even in the same ballpark as that… but that’s not the point. Are we welcoming here or not?
In return I offer that famous quote: “First they came for…” - i.e., if something is true, and moves in a trajectory that will lead to a bad end, even if only slowly, then isn’t that bad, regardless of the speed? I am glad that you do not feel called out, although I wonder why not? If something is directed at someone - anyone - then why are we okay with that, even if we are not the target? Whether anyone in particular takes offense at it or not, wouldn’t the mere fact that people might be offended sufficient reason to stop using it? When I was a kid people would say “ohhhh… gross, man that is so gay” - but you know what, after GREAT efforts, we (as a culture) stopped saying that, it is possible to change language! We did it, out of respect for the LGBTQIA+ community. When I was young we also would hear things like “man, don’t be such a pussy”, or even outright “don’t be such a girl” - this too seems to have stopped? Is being gay wrong? No, but is saying that something is “so gay”, meaning it in a bad way wrong? YES! Is being a girl wrong? No, but is saying that a boy is “being a girl” wrong? YES! Is being a Christian wrong… ? Suddenly shit gets more real with this one, yo. Let’s even say for the sake of argument that it is… so what? Are we going to divide into camps on this issue, like with every other issue (the Left always eats its own), or are we going to be “welcoming” and stop “othering” people so that everyone feels okay to visit here? I feel like I know what Captains Kirk and Picard would do - even at great cost to themselves in the process. But on that, I acknowledge that I could be wrong. (Janeway of course would have already killed me for having spoken up, and then turned my blood into coffee:-P)
(A valid counter-argument might have included b/c the group in question is in power, and it is okay to punch up - now that I could have gotten behind, although ironically this is the one argument that I have not heard yet. It at least displays an acknowledgement that the “punching” is in fact taking place.)
You lost me there. I have no idea where you think that “rape” came from in my statement? Perhaps from mentioning MeToo? That was about way more than just rape - lower wages, in general a culture of not being believed, e.g. when saying what men did, which yes included rape but a whole host of lesser things as well.
As far as touching grass, yes I will do that! In case that is a signal that you want to end this friendly conversation, I will do so. I just wanted to say my piece that hatred and intolerance is never okay, regardless of someone’s personal feelings about the target. I am not sure why that is so controversial… especially in this community of all places, but okay.
![[Car Talk with Martok] Jesus Christ, it's a Straight Line!](https://media.piefed.world/posts/nI/pU/nIpU7C1BvH4Q3nq.jpg){kind=link}
This feels different though. I may be inadequate at explaining but I will try. Both of those involve a juxtaposition of things that are normal but are odd when conjoined: fucking + … sideways? Christ but… as peanut butter?
Calling out a proper name as in “JFC man!” is more like “oh no, somebody pulled a joey!” (or conversely, “watch out - she’s a Karen!”, MY CHILD vibes intensify…:-P). It specifically pulls up the name, in an intentionally derogatory manner. Thereby it is “cheap”, as it ties in to the aforementioned “othering” effect - which is POWERFUL in its allure and an ever-present bias making up human thought patterns, and therefore needs to be watched out for or it will suck us in.
Ironically I would be okay if this community added an exemption to its rules, like “no othering of a group - unless the group in question is Christianity, because fuck those people, amirite?!:-P” What I cannot stand though is when something like this “sneaks through”. Beehaw does a fantastic job at explaining who they are - with not only mere sidebar text but multiple pages of a help document detailing what the rules are, and how they will be enforced. Likewise, Blåhaj does a fantastic job of not only talking the talk but then walking out that walk, i.e. “please bear in mind that this is a server that is very protective of our minority members and bigotry of any variety will be squashed with great prejudice.” In contrast, this community says “generally “othering” of a group will result in removal/ban.” - except, again, unless the target in question is one of those that the people in power happen to disagree with, I guess?
This is not very Star Trek of us, imho. It does not matter if Christianity is deserving of respect or not - there are a lot of historical reasons pointing to… well… both sides yay and nay there - but what matters is how we treat people - ideally with a spirit of outright welcomingness to all, but failing that, at least with equity and fairness? (or at the very minimum, I would hope, transparency)
While in theory this all sounds wonderful, in practice, at least in this case, I’d say you’re making a mountain out of a molehill.
I am only middle-aged, but this comment makes me feel “old” for the first time in my entire lifetime. Or rather, the thoughts that it evokes does. I remember when the MeToo movement came out, and people said the same thing then. Likewise the racist comments before them. Likewise the anti-LGTBTQI+ comments that I have heard over the course of my entire life. “Get over it, it’s not that bad”, “people are just having a bit of fun, it has nothing to do with you, f**got”, and so on.
Elsewhere I have heard on this thread “it’s not happening”, “okay fine it’s happening but it’s okay”, “okay it’s not okay but so what”… and I remember ALL of this, e.g. from Trump’s first (and second) impeachment trials. This event quantitatively is not even in the same ballpark as that… but that’s not the point. Are we welcoming here or not?
In return I offer that famous quote: “First they came for…” - i.e., if something is true, and moves in a trajectory that will lead to a bad end, even if only slowly, then isn’t that bad, regardless of the speed? I am glad that you do not feel called out, although I wonder why not? If something is directed at someone - anyone - then why are we okay with that, even if we are not the target? Whether anyone in particular takes offense at it or not, wouldn’t the mere fact that people might be offended sufficient reason to stop using it? When I was a kid people would say “ohhhh… gross, man that is so gay” - but you know what, after GREAT efforts, we (as a culture) stopped saying that, it is possible to change language! We did it, out of respect for the LGBTQIA+ community. When I was young we also would hear things like “man, don’t be such a pussy”, or even outright “don’t be such a girl” - this too seems to have stopped? Is being gay wrong? No, but is saying that something is “so gay”, meaning it in a bad way wrong? YES! Is being a girl wrong? No, but is saying that a boy is “being a girl” wrong? YES! Is being a Christian wrong… ? Suddenly shit gets more real with this one, yo. Let’s even say for the sake of argument that it is… so what? Are we going to divide into camps on this issue, like with every other issue (the Left always eats its own), or are we going to be “welcoming” and stop “othering” people so that everyone feels okay to visit here? I feel like I know what Captains Kirk and Picard would do - even at great cost to themselves in the process. But on that, I acknowledge that I could be wrong. (Janeway of course would have already killed me for having spoken up, and then turned my blood into coffee:-P)
(A valid counter-argument might have included b/c the group in question is in power, and it is okay to punch up - now that I could have gotten behind, although ironically this is the one argument that I have not heard yet. It at least displays an acknowledgement that the “punching” is in fact taking place.)
TLDR:
You’re equating someone saying “Jesus Christ” as an expletive with rape. You are out of line. As the kids say, go touch some grass.
You lost me there. I have no idea where you think that “rape” came from in my statement? Perhaps from mentioning MeToo? That was about way more than just rape - lower wages, in general a culture of not being believed, e.g. when saying what men did, which yes included rape but a whole host of lesser things as well.
As far as touching grass, yes I will do that! In case that is a signal that you want to end this friendly conversation, I will do so. I just wanted to say my piece that hatred and intolerance is never okay, regardless of someone’s personal feelings about the target. I am not sure why that is so controversial… especially in this community of all places, but okay.