There is essentially universal agreement in the field of child psychology that “beating” your child is the wrong approach.
I’ve yet to meet a parent that completely ignores their child in a public venue. In many cultures children are considered to be a part of society / community and so they are given some autonomy to discover the world with their peers. Hyper individualistic Western society is really the odd one out here and Western cultures are the only ones where I’ve seen this take expressed openly. Conclude from that what you will.
A few weeks ago my wife and I were getting breakfast at a local bakery. Inside, a dad had decided that it did not matter that his small child was running around, screaming at the top of his lungs. The little gremlin started trying to steal pastries off other people’s tables and dad stiff didn’t do anything until the staff announced loudly that all unattended children would be reported to CPS.
That kid didn’t need a beating, but that dad sure did.
Look, with parents you never know what they just went through. Maybe they didn’t get any sleep or whatever. A different approach would have been for someone to start playing with the kid
That does happen in other more child friendly cultures. Its just not a priority in Western culture. Children are very much seen as an impediment to productivity rather than an investment in the future. Its a consequence of capitalistic and individualistic ideals, for better or for worse.
I personally resonate with the song Eat Your Young by Hozier. It’s an indictment on all modern culture but I feel Western culture especially. The overall message being that (in my interpretation) when we focus on productivity instead of sustainability we sell out future generations.
That’s not how that works. Also people never had time to parent. They probably have more time now. Older generations were just sent out on the streets to play in the morning or after school and had to be back for dinner.
If you’re a parent, you are the problem. It’s not strangers’ jobs to parent your kids. If you can’t keep them from bothering other people do not take them to places with other people. It’s not socially acceptable for me to kick your kid, so don’t put me in a position where that starts seeming like a good idea.
If you can’t keep them from bothering other people do not take them to places with other people.
Kids will always bother those around them. They cry, they can’t understand or follow social cues etc. But they’re people and imo they have the right to exist in public places.
In Berlin neighbors sue schools all the time for noise pollution, for being too noisy. Like wtf
Although I agree with the sentiment, I would NEVER expect anybody to entertain my kids. I would just pack them up and gone home. My kids are my burden to bear.
I mostly agree except for the initial phase of teaching a kid to listen and control themselves. The part of the brain that forces them to sit still and focus doesn’t really develop imo without some fear. I wouldn’t at all advocate for beating your child, but when they are young a little spank sometimes that isn’t that bad seems scary as hell to them. It’s very effective to get them to learn to listen, to stop running around, that sort of thing. After you get past that point you can talk to them, it’s much easier. Also you have to talk to them afterwards so they know you aren’t being mean, but need them to learn to control themselves and not let their emotions take over all the time. If you do it well, you won’t have to do it but a few times. Not intensity, but as little as possible, just so they know that they can’t get away with it. A kid has almost unlimited energy to fight and yell. It’s not good for you, and it’s not good for them. It’s not really normal for an animal to never have any fear. The brain isn’t supposed to work that way. Yet also it’s not good to abuse them obviously. Some people are kind of bad parents and they will use that as an excuse to avoid doing what they should for their kids, like cooking healthy food and stuff. When kids arent eating well or are trapped inside all day they also get restless. That is not the time to be spanking. The one time where spanking is appropriate is simply to make them realize that they can’t just ignore you and walk on you, and that they have to actually talk with you when you are serious. Talking is the part where they learn. They should just learn fear. This will make them depressive and lazy and resentful and psychotic.
This is an area with a ton of debate and I appreciate your insights. I was on the receiving end of corporal punishment growing up and have chosen not continue that cycle. That doesn’t mean that my child will grow up without consequences, which is I think what most posters are frustrated with here.
According to the World Health Organization:
Evidence shows corporal punishment harms children’s physical and mental health, increases behavioural problems over time, and has no positive outcomes.
All corporal punishment, however mild or light, carries an inbuilt risk of escalation. Studies suggest that parents who used corporal punishment are at heightened risk of perpetrating severe maltreatment
Corporal punishment is linked to a range of negative outcomes for children across countries and cultures, including physical and mental ill-health, impaired cognitive and socio-emotional development, poor educational outcomes, increased aggression and perpetration of violence.
There is also evidence that fear based parenting can lead to anxiety, depression, behavioral problems, and poor self-esteem and sows mistrust and emotional distance between parent and child. I can personally attest to experiencing quite a few of these in relation to corporal punishment.
Now it sounds like you are using fear judiciously and to each their own. But I am determined to find another way, while also making consequences as clear as possible. Age 1 to 3 is difficult for everyone since the child is mobile and exploratory but has very little reasoning capabilities.
I am similar, I grew up with a great deal of that and I barely ever use it for my kids. I actually have a fair bit of trauma and PTSD because my father was an alcoholic and very mean. I never use it anymore I did a little when they were toddlers to get them to do stuff like not pee in the bed, to not leave trash laying around, to not be disrespectful. I had a severe concussion when I was raising them in that phase and I couldn’t handle the yelling because it would trigger massive migraines. I understand most people who use it do ruin their kids with it, and most people who use it are really trashy parents who are arrogant and have bad morality, but really the point in trying to make is that it’s very healthy for a kid to learn how to deal with the emotion of fear and to experience it a bit. This is something the modern world doesn’t realize as much. It helps them to focus. It’s a very narrow window of course. Fear is a strong work and don’t want you to think that I mean your kid should be terrified of you, but they should learn to have respect to feel a bit of consequences to get past that basic part where their higher mind can take control. Their fear needs to be able to calm their mind. I think of it as two pillars that lean against each other creating an arch, your positive and negative emotions. That is a really complicated way of saying, the only thing spanking is good for, is to teach a kid to stop, think, and listen, anything beyond that is abuse imo. You really need to talk to them and explain, not just preach, but back and forth about why something is right or wrong. Tell them about your life and what you have to deal with. Ask them what they think. Ask them how they feel about it. Let them be honest, let them have autonomy where you can. Being safe and respectful is important but beyond that you don’t own your child and your child doesn’t need to be molded by you as a parent. They need to bloom into their own type of flower. That is what actually makes them a highly motivated person.
It works good for me because I completely support my kids autonomy. I want them to have their own style, their own desires, their own preferences, I want them to be themselves. I don’t police their sexuality or what video games or movies they can watch. What clothes they can buy. I do forbid them from some things of course. Hanging out with people who do drugs is one example. I will talk to them about these things in an adult fashion. I will challenge them and ask them questions about why they are doing something, and ask them to tell me how it makes people around them feel, how it makes them feel. It’s not that they should live their life to please other people, not at all, but to be aware of how their actions affect others. To be aware of other people’s pain and limitations. Talk is best, a respectful adult conversation as equals. A conversation as a friend.
You never want to use physical punishment anymore then you have to, because your child will come to see the world through the lens of a victim. They will never really develop an ability to take pride in themselves and stand up for themselves and to chase their own dreams. Survival becomes their only true friend when they learn to hide themselves from the world.
Growing up in the south I have seen the effects of extensive physical punishment. People lose their personality, their ability to be creative. They lose the ability to understand what is actually right and wrong. They lose the ability to have courage, to stand up for themselves and others. They bottle up their anger for years and delude themselves into thinking they are a tough guy like how fascists think. They become lazy and unmotivated. They envy or despise people who have anything they don’t have. They don’t understand that value does not come from pain or suffering, it comes from creation. Other cultures have their flaws as well. They are also nice and friendly people usually and love to help each other. It’s just the one I’m most familiar with until I can leave. I’m trying to get out of the south because I’m trans and they are getting dumber by the day. Although a large amount of them are very nice. Their politicians know how to manipulate them and they are going to try to ruin this place even more than it is. Even if most Republicans are decent people their politicians are trash. Almost everyone in the south buys into the political propaganda fully and the politicians are really stupid and they are going to cause horrible things to happen in these states.
I’d like to thank you again for your insights. It sounds like you exercise a lot of self control and have thought about this meticulously which unfortunately many parents do not. I agree that theres value in children experiencing and understanding fear in a controlled environment.
Ultimately I do want them to experience and better understand fear though I certainly don’t want them to fear me. I’m still hoping I can impart those lessons without threatening their bodily autonomy since it is personally a hard line for me (just from personal experiences and the psychological issues it caused). But time will tell, mine have yet to enter the stage of chaos and irrationality known as toddlerhood haha.
There is essentially universal agreement in the field of child psychology that “beating” your child is the wrong approach.
I’ve yet to meet a parent that completely ignores their child in a public venue. In many cultures children are considered to be a part of society / community and so they are given some autonomy to discover the world with their peers. Hyper individualistic Western society is really the odd one out here and Western cultures are the only ones where I’ve seen this take expressed openly. Conclude from that what you will.
A few weeks ago my wife and I were getting breakfast at a local bakery. Inside, a dad had decided that it did not matter that his small child was running around, screaming at the top of his lungs. The little gremlin started trying to steal pastries off other people’s tables and dad stiff didn’t do anything until the staff announced loudly that all unattended children would be reported to CPS.
That kid didn’t need a beating, but that dad sure did.
Agreed, that’s unacceptable.
Look, with parents you never know what they just went through. Maybe they didn’t get any sleep or whatever. A different approach would have been for someone to start playing with the kid
That does happen in other more child friendly cultures. Its just not a priority in Western culture. Children are very much seen as an impediment to productivity rather than an investment in the future. Its a consequence of capitalistic and individualistic ideals, for better or for worse.
I personally resonate with the song Eat Your Young by Hozier. It’s an indictment on all modern culture but I feel Western culture especially. The overall message being that (in my interpretation) when we focus on productivity instead of sustainability we sell out future generations.
Very simple: Don’t have children, and the population will collapse until people have time to parent again.
That’s not how that works. Also people never had time to parent. They probably have more time now. Older generations were just sent out on the streets to play in the morning or after school and had to be back for dinner.
If you’re a parent, you are the problem. It’s not strangers’ jobs to parent your kids. If you can’t keep them from bothering other people do not take them to places with other people. It’s not socially acceptable for me to kick your kid, so don’t put me in a position where that starts seeming like a good idea.
Kids will always bother those around them. They cry, they can’t understand or follow social cues etc. But they’re people and imo they have the right to exist in public places.
In Berlin neighbors sue schools all the time for noise pollution, for being too noisy. Like wtf
Although I agree with the sentiment, I would NEVER expect anybody to entertain my kids. I would just pack them up and gone home. My kids are my burden to bear.
I wouldn’t either but I’m not in this persons shoes
I have many times seen parents ignoring their child’s behaviour in public, pretty much every time I go shopping.
That’s incredible, there may be some regional variation at play here.
I mostly agree except for the initial phase of teaching a kid to listen and control themselves. The part of the brain that forces them to sit still and focus doesn’t really develop imo without some fear. I wouldn’t at all advocate for beating your child, but when they are young a little spank sometimes that isn’t that bad seems scary as hell to them. It’s very effective to get them to learn to listen, to stop running around, that sort of thing. After you get past that point you can talk to them, it’s much easier. Also you have to talk to them afterwards so they know you aren’t being mean, but need them to learn to control themselves and not let their emotions take over all the time. If you do it well, you won’t have to do it but a few times. Not intensity, but as little as possible, just so they know that they can’t get away with it. A kid has almost unlimited energy to fight and yell. It’s not good for you, and it’s not good for them. It’s not really normal for an animal to never have any fear. The brain isn’t supposed to work that way. Yet also it’s not good to abuse them obviously. Some people are kind of bad parents and they will use that as an excuse to avoid doing what they should for their kids, like cooking healthy food and stuff. When kids arent eating well or are trapped inside all day they also get restless. That is not the time to be spanking. The one time where spanking is appropriate is simply to make them realize that they can’t just ignore you and walk on you, and that they have to actually talk with you when you are serious. Talking is the part where they learn. They should just learn fear. This will make them depressive and lazy and resentful and psychotic.
This is an area with a ton of debate and I appreciate your insights. I was on the receiving end of corporal punishment growing up and have chosen not continue that cycle. That doesn’t mean that my child will grow up without consequences, which is I think what most posters are frustrated with here.
According to the World Health Organization:
Evidence shows corporal punishment harms children’s physical and mental health, increases behavioural problems over time, and has no positive outcomes.
All corporal punishment, however mild or light, carries an inbuilt risk of escalation. Studies suggest that parents who used corporal punishment are at heightened risk of perpetrating severe maltreatment
Corporal punishment is linked to a range of negative outcomes for children across countries and cultures, including physical and mental ill-health, impaired cognitive and socio-emotional development, poor educational outcomes, increased aggression and perpetration of violence.
There is also evidence that fear based parenting can lead to anxiety, depression, behavioral problems, and poor self-esteem and sows mistrust and emotional distance between parent and child. I can personally attest to experiencing quite a few of these in relation to corporal punishment.
Now it sounds like you are using fear judiciously and to each their own. But I am determined to find another way, while also making consequences as clear as possible. Age 1 to 3 is difficult for everyone since the child is mobile and exploratory but has very little reasoning capabilities.
I am similar, I grew up with a great deal of that and I barely ever use it for my kids. I actually have a fair bit of trauma and PTSD because my father was an alcoholic and very mean. I never use it anymore I did a little when they were toddlers to get them to do stuff like not pee in the bed, to not leave trash laying around, to not be disrespectful. I had a severe concussion when I was raising them in that phase and I couldn’t handle the yelling because it would trigger massive migraines. I understand most people who use it do ruin their kids with it, and most people who use it are really trashy parents who are arrogant and have bad morality, but really the point in trying to make is that it’s very healthy for a kid to learn how to deal with the emotion of fear and to experience it a bit. This is something the modern world doesn’t realize as much. It helps them to focus. It’s a very narrow window of course. Fear is a strong work and don’t want you to think that I mean your kid should be terrified of you, but they should learn to have respect to feel a bit of consequences to get past that basic part where their higher mind can take control. Their fear needs to be able to calm their mind. I think of it as two pillars that lean against each other creating an arch, your positive and negative emotions. That is a really complicated way of saying, the only thing spanking is good for, is to teach a kid to stop, think, and listen, anything beyond that is abuse imo. You really need to talk to them and explain, not just preach, but back and forth about why something is right or wrong. Tell them about your life and what you have to deal with. Ask them what they think. Ask them how they feel about it. Let them be honest, let them have autonomy where you can. Being safe and respectful is important but beyond that you don’t own your child and your child doesn’t need to be molded by you as a parent. They need to bloom into their own type of flower. That is what actually makes them a highly motivated person.
It works good for me because I completely support my kids autonomy. I want them to have their own style, their own desires, their own preferences, I want them to be themselves. I don’t police their sexuality or what video games or movies they can watch. What clothes they can buy. I do forbid them from some things of course. Hanging out with people who do drugs is one example. I will talk to them about these things in an adult fashion. I will challenge them and ask them questions about why they are doing something, and ask them to tell me how it makes people around them feel, how it makes them feel. It’s not that they should live their life to please other people, not at all, but to be aware of how their actions affect others. To be aware of other people’s pain and limitations. Talk is best, a respectful adult conversation as equals. A conversation as a friend.
You never want to use physical punishment anymore then you have to, because your child will come to see the world through the lens of a victim. They will never really develop an ability to take pride in themselves and stand up for themselves and to chase their own dreams. Survival becomes their only true friend when they learn to hide themselves from the world.
Growing up in the south I have seen the effects of extensive physical punishment. People lose their personality, their ability to be creative. They lose the ability to understand what is actually right and wrong. They lose the ability to have courage, to stand up for themselves and others. They bottle up their anger for years and delude themselves into thinking they are a tough guy like how fascists think. They become lazy and unmotivated. They envy or despise people who have anything they don’t have. They don’t understand that value does not come from pain or suffering, it comes from creation. Other cultures have their flaws as well. They are also nice and friendly people usually and love to help each other. It’s just the one I’m most familiar with until I can leave. I’m trying to get out of the south because I’m trans and they are getting dumber by the day. Although a large amount of them are very nice. Their politicians know how to manipulate them and they are going to try to ruin this place even more than it is. Even if most Republicans are decent people their politicians are trash. Almost everyone in the south buys into the political propaganda fully and the politicians are really stupid and they are going to cause horrible things to happen in these states.
I’d like to thank you again for your insights. It sounds like you exercise a lot of self control and have thought about this meticulously which unfortunately many parents do not. I agree that theres value in children experiencing and understanding fear in a controlled environment.
Ultimately I do want them to experience and better understand fear though I certainly don’t want them to fear me. I’m still hoping I can impart those lessons without threatening their bodily autonomy since it is personally a hard line for me (just from personal experiences and the psychological issues it caused). But time will tell, mine have yet to enter the stage of chaos and irrationality known as toddlerhood haha.
Fair enough, you sound like a good one anyways. Best of luck