• ApollosArrow@lemmy.world
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    4 天前

    Man, Ulf could have played an ultimate triple agent. He could have made the deal with the Hightowers to trick them into their safe gambit, then walked out and told Daemon he was tricking the Hightowers into lowering their defenses. He would have probably gained some more freedom and thought him smarter.

    • MimicJar@lemmy.worldOP
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      4 天前

      Yeah but that ain’t Ulf’s vibe. I think there is a version of events where Ulf set’s up a complicated trap… But he still ends up drunk, passed out on the privy.

  • MimicJar@lemmy.worldOP
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    6 天前

    Shout out to Rhaenyra for putting on her “we’re the baddies” makeup.

    Also poor Joffrey. Sent away by mum. Returned to mum but can’t see her. Finally gets a day with mum but it’s the day she’s going crazy, killing septons and yelling about prophecy.

    But really poor Helena. Her last words with Alicent a few episodes ago really had the vibe of last last words. Refusing to eat. There’s more to being alive then just being not dead. I didn’t think it would all happen so fast/this episode.

    Also Gwayne lived, did Daeron? I have to assume so.

    Winter Wolves went out like champs. He seemed so happy to die. Good for him.

    But of course the hero of the episode, which is to say the man who fucked everything up and just wanted a pint, Ulf. It looks like he survives into next season. Maybe he just fucks off to nowhere and lives his best life. I don’t see him joining up with Aegon unless he just lucks into it.

    • Tango@piefed.ca
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      6 天前

      But really poor Helena. Her last words with Alicent a few episodes ago really had the vibe of last last words. Refusing to eat. There’s more to being alive then just being not dead. I didn’t think it would all happen so fast/this episode.

      Timing-wise, I think it would have made more narrative sense for her death to happen at the start of the fourth season, because it will serve to trigger other events. But having read the book and knowing that this was coming, I knew it wouldn’t make much sense to force Phia Saban to hang around for another season when her story arc was more or less over. Now she’s free to commit to other jobs.

      There are certain things I want to point out:

      1. The smallfolk LOVED Helaena. Little Jaehaerys’s funeral showcased just how unreservedly obsessed with her they are, like England’s Princess Di.

      2. And just like Princess Di, this death will be treated with suspicion by the smallfolk. Same day that Rhaenyra had the High Septon killed? Expect conspiracy theories.

      3. What’s Alicent gonna think when she hears that while she was away, Helaena “fell mysteriously from the Red Keep”?

      Not taking good care of Helaena is probably the biggest mistake Rhaenyra has made so far, and she’s already made some real doozies. That baby, if it had been a boy, would have been Aegon’s only son and heir. He has no dick anymore; he can have no more children. He would have done anything to ensure his only son’s safety. They would have been the perfect hostage. Now Rhaenyra won’t even have Alicent, whose only reason to return was Helaena. Little Jaehaera is all alone now and it remains to be seen whether Aegon cares as much about daughters as about sons.

      EDIT: Oh, and let’s not forget that now Aegon is free to remarry, which he wouldn’t have been. Despite no longer having a dick, there’s no doubt that some noble house or another will be willing to marry a daughter to him, thus securing him more allies.

      Winter Wolves went out like champs. He seemed so happy to die. Good for him.

      Well, the whole point of the Winter Wolves was that the elders of the North seek to die (gloriously) when winter comes, so as to give their families fewer mouths to feed. As Roddy the Ruin retorted when Cole said that if there was a battle, men would die on both sides: “that’s why we’ve come!”.

      But of course the hero of the episode, which is to say the man who fucked everything up and just wanted a pint, Ulf. It looks like he survives into next season. Maybe he just fucks off to nowhere and lives his best life. I don’t see him joining up with Aegon unless he just lucks into it.

      Ulf wanted a castle. Now he’s got one. I don’t think he’s going anywhere. He’s got the third or fourth largest dragon in Westeros; Silverwing belonged to old Queen Alysanne, wife of Jaehaerys the Conciliator. He probably fears nothing but Vhagar and/or Vermithor, since Dreamfyre now no longer has a rider.

      • MimicJar@lemmy.worldOP
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        5 天前

        hang around for another season when her story arc was more or less over

        Jace actor in shambles. (But I know that was largely a production fuck up.) And I suppose Jace did have his final character building moment.

        I think saving Helena’s death for next season would have been better. It would give Alicent a reason to try and return to King’s Landing. The season could have ended with Helena being force fed and upset, and Mysaria sowing seeds about Rhaenyra being cruel to her. With a 2 year gap it’ll feel like she’s been living in hell for 2 years. Alicent could first learn that Aegon/Aemond are alive. Then once Helena dies Alicent can learn and feel a sense of guilt since she failed to kill Aemond.


        Is Ulf’s castle Tumbleton? The last shot I remember seeing is Ulf on dragon, being chased by Hugh on dragon (?), being chased by another dragon (?).

        I didn’t get the vibe that he was going to stick around. Especially since at least one of those dragons is Vermithor.

        • Tango@piefed.ca
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          5 天前

          Daemon and Hugh were in the town when Ulf attacked; I would expect that Caraxes and Vermithor are chasing him riderless, on their own initiative as dragons. This leaves Daemon and Hugh to flee afoot or ahorse.

          However it must be borne in mind that since Ormund held the civilians hostage while Daemon callously attacked anyway, Hugh is probably gonna be very receptive to Ulf’s “fuck both the Blacks AND the Greens” philosophy.

          • MimicJar@lemmy.worldOP
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            5 天前

            Hugh is a bit of a wildcard.

            I don’t think he has any beef with Team Black at the moment. Unless there were Team Black soldiers in his wife’s house, but even then he’d have to make a bit of a leap to blame Rhaenyra for that.

            However Ulf’s earlier question of life being better since getting a dragon, that is something that I think he’ll think about. Since getting a dragon his wife and wife’s family all died, and Rhaenyra has been dismissive of him. If she starts asking him to kill innocent people I could see him abandoning her.

  • 73ms@sopuli.xyz
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    5 天前

    Decent season finale but to me it seems like it might have been better to let some of these happen in the previous episodes because some of the past ones weren’t all that eventful.

    The battles make as little sense as they ever did in GoT. If you’ve already breached the walls it doesn’t seem to make much sense that a dragon would be the decisive factor anymore since you can’t use it on the warriors already within… You’d also think Daemon would have given a bit more thought to the what if of there being dragons to contend with (even if he counted on the traitor being on his own side). And then Ulf turns his dragon against the city anyway, somehow supposedly knowing exactly where Ormund is…

    That said, it was an epic episode that I enjoyed a lot, going to be a long wait to see how things resolve exactly…

  • Tango@piefed.ca
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    5 天前

    I wonder why they wrote Ormund as conferring knighthood with a different oath than we’ve heard in GOT and AKOTSK. Does this mean that the usual oath is a newer invention, and the one we hear Ormund recite is the original?

    Old:

    <Name>, do you swear, before the eyes of gods and men, to defend those who cannot defend themselves, to protect all women and children, to obey your captains, your liege lord, to fight bravely whenever needed, and to do such other tasks as are laid upon you, however hard, or humble, or dangerous they may be? Then rise a knight, Ser <name>.

    New:

    In the name of the Warrior, I charge you to be brave. In the name of the Father, I charge you to be just. In the name of the Mother, I charge you to defend the young and innocent. Arise Ser <name>, a knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

    • MimicJar@lemmy.worldOP
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      5 天前

      When Ulf, Hugh and Addam are knighted Daemon uses the classic “In the name of the Warrior” oath. So that version exists in this time period.

      When the scene started I thought Ormund was giving Daeron a coronation, which I thought was weird for a number of reasons. Being able to read the words it’s more clear since “obey your captains, your liege lord” isn’t very kingly.

      So maybe it’s a regional oath? More of an Oldtown expression? Although weird that Oldtown, the religious center, wouldn’t call out Warrior, Father, and Mother clearly and go with a more generic oath.

      So maybe Ormund was just trying to start a new trend?

      • Tango@piefed.ca
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        5 天前

        Well, since my last comment, I’ve learned that this oath has been heard before, in the books.

        “You must be a lackwit, boy,” said Lem. “We’re outlaws. Lowborn scum, most of us, excepting his lordship. Don’t think it’ll be like Tom’s fool songs neither. You won’t be stealing no kisses from a princess, nor riding in no tourneys in stolen armor. You join us, you’ll end with your neck in a noose, or your head mounted up above some castle gate.”

        “It’s no more than they’d do for you,” said Gendry.

        “Aye, that’s so,” said Jack-Be-Lucky cheerfully. “The crows await us all. M’lord, the boy seems brave enough, and we do have need of what he brings us. Take him, says Jack.”

        “And quick,” suggested Harwin, chuckling, “before the fever passes and he comes back to his senses.”

        A wan smile crossed Lord Beric’s lips. “Thoros, my sword.”

        This time the lightning lord did not set the blade afire, but merely laid it light on Gendry’s shoulder. “Gendry, do you swear before the eyes of gods and men to defend those who cannot defend themselves, to protect all women and children, to obey your captains, your liege lord, and your king, to fight bravely when needed and do such other tasks as are laid upon you, however hard or humble or dangerous they may be?”

        “I do, m’lord.”

        The marcher lord moved the sword from the right shoulder to the left, and said, “Arise Ser Gendry, knight of the hollow hill, and be welcome to our brotherhood.”

        From the door came rough, rasping laughter.

        The rain was running off him. His burned arm was wrapped in leaves and linen and bound tight against his chest by a crude rope sling, but the older burns that marked his face glistened black and slick in the glow of their little fire. “Making more knights, Dondarrion?” the intruder said in a growl. “I ought to kill you all over again for that.”

        A Storm of Swords, Arya VII

        I wonder if there’s anything common to both Ormund Hightower and Beric Dondarrion that might explain why they use the same rite for knighting. Maybe it’s a southron thing?

        • MimicJar@lemmy.worldOP
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          5 天前

          One possibility is that we’ve never seen the whole oath and both of these oaths are actually one complete oath.

          The first part is asking a question, “<Person>, do you… dangerous they may be?” And upon affirmation it leads into the “In the name of the Warrior” part.

          The problem with that of course is that we should always see the Warrior part and the first on part is skipped sometimes.


          A second possibility is that Lord Beric doesn’t follow The Faith of the Seven, he follows the Lord of Light. So it makes sense that his oath doesn’t mention the Seven (The Warrior, etc). So this oath could be for non Faith of the Seven followers.

          Unfortunately it is VERY unlikely that Ormund doesn’t follow the Faith of the Seven being he’s from Oldtown.

          You could argue that Ormund sees the Targaryens as lessers and therefore gives Daeron the non Faith of the Seven oath. But I’m confident Daeron was raised under the Faith of the Seven and on the off chance Daeron wasn’t, converting him would be seen as a win.

          So then perhaps there is a separation of church and state thing going on. Maybe some knights prefer a non religious oath. Perhaps the original Faith Militant had an oath similar to “In the name of the Warrior” and this split is meant to be clear service to “the gods” instead of a specific religion.

          When Jon and Sam take their oaths at the Wall they also do so separate from everyone else since they follow the Old Gods.

          But unfortunately none of that really makes sense for Ormund.