The Geneva convention was established to minimise atrocities in conflicts. Israeli settlements in Gaza are illegal and violate the Geneva convention. Legality of Israeli settlements Article 51 of the Geneva convention prohibits indiscriminate attacks on civilian population yet Israel attacked hospitals with children inside. Whether you agree or not that Hamas were present, children cannot be viewed as combatants.so when no care was taken to protect them, does this not constitute a violation? According to save the children, 1 in 50 children in Gaza had been killed or injured. This is a very high proportion and does not show care being taken to prevent such casualties and therefore constitutes a violation.
So my question is simply, do supporters of Israel no longer support our believe in the Geneva convention, did you never, or how do you reconcile Israeli breaches of the Geneva convention? For balance I should add “do you not believe such violations are occurring and if so how did you come to this position?”
Answers other than only "they have the right to go after Hamas " please. The issue is how they are going after Hamas, not whether they should or not.
EDIT: Title changed to remove ambiguity about supporting Israel vs supporting their actions
In the interest of moderation transparency, we’ve had a couple of reports about this post.
Here’s my thinking about it:
Community purpose
- This post is more political that would ordinarily be seen on AskLemmy, ⬇️
- it is an open-ended thought provoking question, ⬆️
- it is generating healthy and informative discussion and debate. ⬆️
Rule 1:
- the post is not trolling, sealioning, racist or toxic, ⬆️
- the topic is contentious but seems to be worded politely, ⬆️
- the author has voluntarily amended the question to be more sensitive in their framing. ⬆️
Rule 3:
- it does not fit the definition of spam or astroturfing ⬆️
On balance, I’m going to let the post remain up.
Thank you but if the discussion does start going toxic, please do take it down.
I’m an avid palestine supporter, but what’s the point of this thread? You know there are no Israel supporters here save for trolls, and this isn’t a question, it’s a rant.
Fourpackets posted a complete thought that doesn’t seem to be trolling
Edit who the fuck downvotes this
There are quite a few on Lemmy.
One is a mod on News on Lemmy.world
The Geneva Convention is clearly Hamas.
Everybody I don’t like is clearly Hamas
The Geneva conventions are not monolithic documents, and they are not completely uncontroversial. I believe the article 51 you refer to is in a 1978 addon protocol that Israel has not ratified. For reference, there is a different article 51 in the original 1949 conventions, that talks about when an occupying army may conscript civilian labor.
Like any other international treaties, the conventions only apply to countries that have signed on and ratified the treaties. The United States and Israel have not ratified the additional protocol, so from their perspective they are not bound by the text.
The original 1949 conventions do have protections for civilians, but they are weaker protections. Ratiometric evidence of civilian casualties is heartbreaking, but unfortunately simply not relevant to the 1949 conventions. Under those rules, if a facility is used by your enemy to harm you, you can attack that facility. Period.
IDF is always careful to portray how they scrupulously follow the 1949 conventions when they speak to the media. Clear violations that become public are referred to investigation.
As in any war, some elements of IDF are almost certainly violating the conventions. But as a USian I don’t think I’ll get close to understanding the truth any time soon. I basically don’t trust any news source coming out of that region any more.
This is a loaded question. It pretends every supporter of Israel also supports the current government, the illegal occupation, the ongoing war, and throwing the Geneva convention out.
I support Israel’s right to exist as a sovereign state and a homeland for the Jewish people.
But I support none of the above.
And no, I don’t have a good solution for this age-old conflict either.
a homeland for the Jewish people.
Weird way to call a stolen property lol
Everywhere has been stolen, not to excuse the bullshit happening on the West Bank but still
Yes but my tax money paid today didn’t support other crimes. They do support Israel and indont like it.
It’s not stolen. Brief history lesson:
The lands of Israel and Jordan used to be part of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans sided with the Nazis.
Brief aside: we know the Arabs believe that if you win a war, you win the land, and if you lose a war, you lose the land, because that’s what they want to happen with Israel. So this principle applies to them as well.
When the Nazis lost, the Ottomans also lost, and that’s where the British and French Mandates began. The land was no longer owned by the Arabs because, according to the principle they live by, they lost the war, therefore they lost the land.
The British Mandate for Palestine comprised an amount of previously Ottoman land, of which they allocated one third to the new country Israel (which includes Gaza and the West Bank), and two thirds to the new country Transjordan, later renamed Jordan. The land of Israel was not stolen by the Jews from the Arabs, it was lost by the Arabs in a war they lost. But they got two thirds of that land back, i.e. Jordan.
It’s remarkable how respectful you are of Arab views that you don’t also hold but which happen to be convenient for you.
They also completely lied.
The Ottoman empire didn’t exist after the Great War.
The Ottoman empire sided with the Nazis?
How has no one commented on this ahistorical nonsense.
The Ottoman empire dissolved in 1922.
After The Great War aka World War One, the British took over the area called Mandatory Palestine in 1920.
Everything about this post is insanely wrong.
Perhaps you could update the Wikipedia article with your knowledge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Powers
“It consisted of the German Empire, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and Bulgaria; this was also known as the Quadruple Alliance”
Maybe you could update it with yours:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire
In the aftermath of World War I, the victorious Allied Powers occupied and partitioned the Ottoman Empire, which lost its southern territories to the United Kingdom and France. The successful Turkish War of Independence, led by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk against the occupying Allies, led to the emergence of the Republic of Turkey in the Anatolian heartland and the abolition of the Ottoman monarchy in 1922, formally ending the Ottoman Empire.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
Mandatory Palestine[a][4] was a geopolitical entity that existed between 1920 and 1948 in the region of Palestine under the terms of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine.
After an Arab uprising against the Ottoman Empire during the First World War in 1916, British forces drove Ottoman forces out of the Levant.[5] The United Kingdom had agreed in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence that it would honour Arab independence in case of a revolt but, in the end, the United Kingdom and France divided what had been Ottoman Syria under the Sykes–Picot Agreement—an act of betrayal in the eyes of the Arabs. Another issue was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which Britain promised its support for the establishment of a Jewish “national home” in Palestine. Mandatory Palestine was then established in 1920, and the British obtained a Mandate for Palestine from the League of Nations in 1922.[6]
Also, this is literally copied from your link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Powers
For the World War II alliance, see Axis powers. The Central Powers, also known as the Central Empires,[1][notes 1] were one of the two main coalitions that fought in World War I (1914–1918). It consisted of the German Empire, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and Bulgaria; this was also known as the Quadruple Alliance.[2][notes 2]
Jesus, the link you provided was FOR the great war.
Did you even read it? Of course you did, you bad faith liar, the text literally from before your quotes was the time period that you intentionally removed.
On the tiny miniscule chance you actually believed the nonsense you spouted, do you see that you were either taught completely erroneously, or outright lied too?
EDIT: To address the racism of the original post:
Do you think Ottomans are Arab? Do you think Persians are Arab?
The whole point of Lawrence of Arabia was the attempt to get the Arabic people to mutiny against the Ottoman empire.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Revolt
Maybe you can read this and actually learn that Arab isn’t a generic term for middle easterner.
Well, I’m not intentionally lying but I may have been misinformed. TIL, thanks.
I apologize for the accusations of lying and bad faith arguments.
If you actually want to learn about the history of the area, these are good starts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936–1939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes–Picot_Agreement
The long and short of it is that the British promised the Arab’s self determination, and then broke the promise to give the land to Zionist immigrants mostly from Europe who absolutely stole the land from the indigenous people, with terrorism being one of the tools used. See the Irgun, Heganah, and Lehi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah
Fun fact: The first Israeli Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, organized kidnapping operations for the Irgun before the establishment of Israel. He was also in charge during the massacre of Deir Yassin.
For the historical record:
https://lemm.ee/u/letsgo intentionally confusing the Central Powers with the Axis and deceptively editing a quote to try and sell the lie.
All in order to justify a genocide.
Hamas was using Al Shifa hospital as a base, tunnel entrance, and torture site.
Using human shields is war crime. Torture is a war crime. Killing your hostages is a war crime. Raping prisoners is a war crime.
It basically turns into “who is committing less serious war crimes” and attacking the place where they torture prisoners and use them as human shields, imo, is a valid military attack.
