Hey, I’m sorry that “Jesus Christ” as an expletive feels alienating to you. I hadn’t thought about that perspective. As a lifelong atheist my feeling is that Christianity, and by extension blasphemous expletives, are so thoroughly enmeshed in Western culture that that’s what comes out when I’m startled. I don’t feel like I’m using the words to show distaste for another group; I feel like the words are part of my culture even though I’m not religious. My guess is that saying"Jesus Christ" is generally not intended to be a statement on Christians. But I can see how someone who is religious might see it differently. I suppose lots of people see their relationship with Jesus as a part of their identity that distinguishes them from people who don’t believe, and from that perspective I can see how a perceived attack on Jesus feels like a personal attack.
I’ll also mention that since I didn’t have a religious upbringing I was never taught to have any particular reaction to blasphemy, which tends to make me see those expletives as less-offensive alternatives to scatological or sexual expletives. I don’t have a good perspective of what such language feels like to someone who was taught that blasphemy is bad.
And why not add one more paragraph - I agree that when I view him as a moral philosopher and proto-socialist I find a lot of what Jesus said and did to be admirable.
Well, something to consider is that as an exclamation, “Jesus” etc started among Christians as an invocation of protection, not as an expletive. Same as “oh my god!”. We’ve kind of dropped the second part for brevity, (“save me!”)
In the way we use it, it’s usually more of an exclamation than an expletive, but, eh, as far as which is more offensive, it’ll always depend on who you’re talking to- even between Christians
I find it the height of irony how the class of people that Jesus hated most were hypocritics - calling them “den of vipers” and even more descriptive “like whitewashed tombs, looking good only on the outside but on the inside full of rot and decay”.
Jesus hung out with prostitutes and “tax collectors” - today that would be LGBTQIA+ and homeless or renters rather than landlords - and argued for women’s rights.
In America the people who showed up to overthrow the government on January 6th called themselves “patriots”, and similarly people say how they “follow the teachings of Christ”. But… how trustworthy are the people saying this?
Anyway, I’ve been a bit of everything in my life from Christian to Atheist and several forms of in-between, but regardless of my personal thoughts about the actual subject mainly what I was saying above was about the meta-subject of the wording causing “othering” and making people feel welcomed. Not people who “follow Christ” by like diddling kids (aka who do NOT do that, whatever they claim), and rather people who regardless of whether they do the former, find the latter repugnant, yet can come from a wide variety of backgrounds (including other varieties of non-mainstream Christianity such as Mormon, or Muslims also consider Jesus as one of the Holy Prophets).
I would not like to see people making fun of gay people. Or women (or men). So why is it okay to make fun of Christians? And not merely the hypocritical Christo-fascists, but all Christians (and again, also Mormons, Muslims, etc.)? Even the ones feeding & helping to house the homeless, or the ones who fought to end slavery in the UK? It’s easier to build a community by “othering” the outsiders, by making everything about “us versus them”. I’m watching the Republicans in the USA do that right this very weekend, ending much of the spending programs for things such as healthcare and science, and when asked they can’t even say why really, except that they need to “pwn the libs”.
Which makes me think that it’s not enough to be against something - we need to be for something. One thing this very community is for is inclusivity, creating a safe and not merely tolerant but outright welcoming space for people to come and chat. Unless, that is, you are part of that “other” group, over “there”.
That does not make me feel good. How does it make you feel?
![[Car Talk with Martok] Jesus Christ, it's a Straight Line!](https://media.piefed.world/posts/nI/pU/nIpU7C1BvH4Q3nq.jpg){kind=link}
Hey, I’m sorry that “Jesus Christ” as an expletive feels alienating to you. I hadn’t thought about that perspective. As a lifelong atheist my feeling is that Christianity, and by extension blasphemous expletives, are so thoroughly enmeshed in Western culture that that’s what comes out when I’m startled. I don’t feel like I’m using the words to show distaste for another group; I feel like the words are part of my culture even though I’m not religious. My guess is that saying"Jesus Christ" is generally not intended to be a statement on Christians. But I can see how someone who is religious might see it differently. I suppose lots of people see their relationship with Jesus as a part of their identity that distinguishes them from people who don’t believe, and from that perspective I can see how a perceived attack on Jesus feels like a personal attack.
I’ll also mention that since I didn’t have a religious upbringing I was never taught to have any particular reaction to blasphemy, which tends to make me see those expletives as less-offensive alternatives to scatological or sexual expletives. I don’t have a good perspective of what such language feels like to someone who was taught that blasphemy is bad.
And why not add one more paragraph - I agree that when I view him as a moral philosopher and proto-socialist I find a lot of what Jesus said and did to be admirable.
Well, something to consider is that as an exclamation, “Jesus” etc started among Christians as an invocation of protection, not as an expletive. Same as “oh my god!”. We’ve kind of dropped the second part for brevity, (“save me!”)
In the way we use it, it’s usually more of an exclamation than an expletive, but, eh, as far as which is more offensive, it’ll always depend on who you’re talking to- even between Christians
I find it the height of irony how the class of people that Jesus hated most were hypocritics - calling them “den of vipers” and even more descriptive “like whitewashed tombs, looking good only on the outside but on the inside full of rot and decay”.
Jesus hung out with prostitutes and “tax collectors” - today that would be LGBTQIA+ and homeless or renters rather than landlords - and argued for women’s rights.
In America the people who showed up to overthrow the government on January 6th called themselves “patriots”, and similarly people say how they “follow the teachings of Christ”. But… how trustworthy are the people saying this?
Anyway, I’ve been a bit of everything in my life from Christian to Atheist and several forms of in-between, but regardless of my personal thoughts about the actual subject mainly what I was saying above was about the meta-subject of the wording causing “othering” and making people feel welcomed. Not people who “follow Christ” by like diddling kids (aka who do NOT do that, whatever they claim), and rather people who regardless of whether they do the former, find the latter repugnant, yet can come from a wide variety of backgrounds (including other varieties of non-mainstream Christianity such as Mormon, or Muslims also consider Jesus as one of the Holy Prophets).
I would not like to see people making fun of gay people. Or women (or men). So why is it okay to make fun of Christians? And not merely the hypocritical Christo-fascists, but all Christians (and again, also Mormons, Muslims, etc.)? Even the ones feeding & helping to house the homeless, or the ones who fought to end slavery in the UK? It’s easier to build a community by “othering” the outsiders, by making everything about “us versus them”. I’m watching the Republicans in the USA do that right this very weekend, ending much of the spending programs for things such as healthcare and science, and when asked they can’t even say why really, except that they need to “pwn the libs”.
Which makes me think that it’s not enough to be against something - we need to be for something. One thing this very community is for is inclusivity, creating a safe and not merely tolerant but outright welcoming space for people to come and chat. Unless, that is, you are part of that “other” group, over “there”.
That does not make me feel good. How does it make you feel?