I know kids who’s parents kept them away from computers growing up, where as I was allowed to play with computers and broke several by the age of 10.
Now I’m good with computers and have made a good career out of it, those kids who weren’t allowed around computers aren’t very computer literate, their parents definitely did them a big disservice.
Teach your kids a healthy ballance with new technology, but don’t withhold it especially when their peers are all using it.
Young people are still social but they do it differently, if you are no not online you wouldn’t know their is a social gathering nor would you be invited.
Not from malace but because all information about any event only exists online.
The person you consider your best friend needs someone to talk to. All their friends are available but not you. You become hard to bond with because your not where everyone else is in digital space.
Many events even require smartphone, even boring restaurants sometimes do with a QR code to see the menu/order.
I hate that kind of stuff but since a few years it has become clear that not having a smartphone is basically a social disability.
I understand that it is harder to bond to someone who isn’t immediately digitally available. I understand that "kids these days! " do their social stuff online, but at the same time, they seem to have largely lost all skill at interacting with real humans of slight or no aquaintence.
It is easy to make sarcastic comments on your phone about how stupid this or that is. The sterotypical basement dweller can snark all day. What takes social skill is actively engaging with people you don’t care about and finding common ground.
Yes, digital people track some of this on facebook and such, but in real life: in which community groups do they participate? Do they know what their neighbors do and what they like beyond snapshots of events? That is: yeah, they saw that pic of that cookout, but did they know that he volunteer teaches English as a second language Tuesday and Thursday at the library? When was the last time they went into a neighbor’s home (or had one visit theirs) to share a cup of coffee and complain about that road that needs fixing and who to push about it?
Edited to replace ‘you’ with ‘they’ so there’d be no confusion that I mean multiple ‘you’ readers rather than a single person.
I don’t think you understand. Would it be nice if society was less dependant on phones for everything social? Sure. It is your kid’s responsibility to evangelize to their peers that they have to? Absolutely not.
This isn’t a societal question. This is about affording a kid a social life at all. If a kid doesn’t have a phone when all their peers have one, there’s no “oh well simply only go to events that are shared on something else than phones”, because there are no such events. There’s no “oh well only socialize with people who will make the effort to only have conversations in person”, because there will be at best one kid in the entire school that also doesn’t have a phone (hint: they’ll be the “weird” kid).
This is equivalent to your parents saying “you may only talk to people at school, you aren’t allowed to talk to anyone once you leave school.” Surely you understand that this is a surefire way to completely ostracize and socially stunt your kid, and for what benefit? The only thing you gain is that you get to not parent your kid about safe internet use, a thing you really should be doing anyway because they’re going to get internet access at some point.
This is equivalent to your parents saying "you may only talk to people at school
You’ve got my point backwards. I’m saying kids would be better prepared for life if they talked to people, and particularly if they talked to people they don’t particularly care about rather than only swapping phone memes with kids they already know. Also, no one is saying there should be a complete ban on phones. The article simply suggests keeping the bedroom screen-free (better for sleep, studying, etc.). I went further to point out that as we’ve become more ‘social’ on phones we’re less social in society.
Do you realize how hostile the outside is to non-adults? Like genuinely I’ve seen people call the cops because there was a kid riding a bike unsuprivized in a suburban neighborhood. Malls are dying and there’s nothing to replace them as a meeting spot.
This isn’t even getting into the seeming requirement to spend what feels like 100$ to see a movie now or any of the other stereotypical hang outs. Or how many people have parents that simply do not have time to drive them places.
I’m genuinely interested in your response because I genuinely think the world has become actively hostile to kids being kids.
First bit: Why do we as a country (speaking from the U.S.) allow police to assualt the citizenry? Why aren’t we all in our town halls demanding the removal of any cops who handcuff kids, tackle people who don’t speak English, or fire guns at anyone who isn’t at that moment attacking someone? The police should be under our control by our consent. We elect their bosses if not the sheriffs themselves. Why aren’t we showing up in numbers in person to demand better?
Second bit: I know there are still some communities where kids can ride their bikes without fear because the parents still know everyone on the block. They might not like all the neighbors, but they know them and aren’t calling the cops on them. The bad part of that is a distrust of outsiders and unwillingness to accept anything different. Humans fall into us/them thinking too easily. As far as I have heard/read/seen, the best way to mitigate that is first-hand exposure to the ‘other’ because people tend to be better than whatever sterotype someone worries about. Reminiscing here: I remember visiting my grandparents and having them walk me into various houses on the block to chat with neighbors. It never occurred to me as a bored child that this was socially incorporating me into an insular community that might have been sucpsious of a strange kid biking around the same streets over and over if they didn’t know I belonged there.
That said, I don’t understand how the kids like me who grew up running wild wherever we wanted became parents who didn’t allow any roaming, and who’s kids then became adults that will call the cops before asking the neighbors. Maybe we move too often. Maybe we fear litigation. Mostly, I suspect, we work too many hours for not enough money such that adults don’t have the energy to form old-style communities where people banded together (both for good and bad), and instead everyone only bitches online just as I am doing right now.
You still have local second-run theaters where those still exist, plus parks and playgrounds where those haven’t been ruined yet, and depending on where you live, there may even be various art/craft places to hang out at, splatter-painting places included in that, and some of the nicer parts of the country even have interactive museums that are kid-friendly (as in actually interactive, like the patrons can actually interact and play with the exhibits there).
Aside from those, yeah, there isn’t much for kids to do. sarcasm, but also not really if you're in a *really* low-income part of the country where there really *isn't* anything to do, think of places like Appalachia for a good example of that extreme
You’re still ignoring the core problem in that children can’t do any of those things by themselves anymore and all of them cost some amount of money with the exception of playgrounds and parks. Growing up the closest one to me was about a 30 minute drive so I would never be able to get myself there.
So all you have to do is for everyone to move to a better neighbourhood, problem solved.
Sarcasm aside, in my neighbourhood there where some attempts to get together. Then people started complaining about eachother. Now at most a neighbour may wave back when i wave at them.
That’s screwed, and most of the places I mentioned, are generally in cities/towns that are pretty well off, as I mentioned in that ‘sarcasm, but not really’ disclaimer, places like Appalachia are truly screwed in that regard, and also your situation.
Maybe not a smartphone, I mean you can still use calls and texts to call out sick answer calls about job interviews.
But yeah you’re not wrong in that smartphone do make life a lot smoother. For example if you want to check your payroll and w2 info, that is gonna require an app on a smartphone, and some of them even requires an app for 2fa because of (supposedly) the increase in fraud, and banking and job applications, while you don’t need a smartphone for those, you’re still gonna need access to a computer, so for someone without a computer, might as well get a smartphone instead of a dumbphone + a computer.
Are you in EU? Because in America, that’s not the norm.
To clarify, they do provide devices for things you do on the job, like scanning inventory for example, but not for the stuff you do outside of the job, stuff like checking your pay statements, schedule, and to call in sick, that’s expected to be done on your own devices, because that’s technically not needed for the job itself, even though its practically needed as a prerequisite for getting that job in the first place (Because how are you gonna fill out your job application? They don’t even take paper applications anymore, its all done online. You’ll need a phone number and some companies require an email address as well).
If your phone breaks after you got the job, that’s fine, you probably won’t have any problems if you work at a warehouse or fastfood place, but just hope you don’t get sick and need that phone to call them (because “no call, no show” get you fired).
I don’t disagree, but wouldn’t it be better if society rejected that demand from capitalism and forced them to change because people aren’t interested in using an app to shop in a fucking grocery store?
If you wanted to socially stunt them maybe. Please never do this.
I know kids who’s parents kept them away from computers growing up, where as I was allowed to play with computers and broke several by the age of 10.
Now I’m good with computers and have made a good career out of it, those kids who weren’t allowed around computers aren’t very computer literate, their parents definitely did them a big disservice.
Teach your kids a healthy ballance with new technology, but don’t withhold it especially when their peers are all using it.
As an old fart who witnessed social gatherings for decades, it looks like social stunting comes from smartphones rather than their absence.
This is correct from your perspective only.
Young people are still social but they do it differently, if you are no not online you wouldn’t know their is a social gathering nor would you be invited. Not from malace but because all information about any event only exists online.
The person you consider your best friend needs someone to talk to. All their friends are available but not you. You become hard to bond with because your not where everyone else is in digital space.
Many events even require smartphone, even boring restaurants sometimes do with a QR code to see the menu/order.
I hate that kind of stuff but since a few years it has become clear that not having a smartphone is basically a social disability.
I understand that it is harder to bond to someone who isn’t immediately digitally available. I understand that "kids these days! " do their social stuff online, but at the same time, they seem to have largely lost all skill at interacting with real humans of slight or no aquaintence.
It is easy to make sarcastic comments on your phone about how stupid this or that is. The sterotypical basement dweller can snark all day. What takes social skill is actively engaging with people you don’t care about and finding common ground.
Yes, digital people track some of this on facebook and such, but in real life: in which community groups do they participate? Do they know what their neighbors do and what they like beyond snapshots of events? That is: yeah, they saw that pic of that cookout, but did they know that he volunteer teaches English as a second language Tuesday and Thursday at the library? When was the last time they went into a neighbor’s home (or had one visit theirs) to share a cup of coffee and complain about that road that needs fixing and who to push about it?
Edited to replace ‘you’ with ‘they’ so there’d be no confusion that I mean multiple ‘you’ readers rather than a single person.
I don’t think you understand. Would it be nice if society was less dependant on phones for everything social? Sure. It is your kid’s responsibility to evangelize to their peers that they have to? Absolutely not.
This isn’t a societal question. This is about affording a kid a social life at all. If a kid doesn’t have a phone when all their peers have one, there’s no “oh well simply only go to events that are shared on something else than phones”, because there are no such events. There’s no “oh well only socialize with people who will make the effort to only have conversations in person”, because there will be at best one kid in the entire school that also doesn’t have a phone (hint: they’ll be the “weird” kid).
This is equivalent to your parents saying “you may only talk to people at school, you aren’t allowed to talk to anyone once you leave school.” Surely you understand that this is a surefire way to completely ostracize and socially stunt your kid, and for what benefit? The only thing you gain is that you get to not parent your kid about safe internet use, a thing you really should be doing anyway because they’re going to get internet access at some point.
You’ve got my point backwards. I’m saying kids would be better prepared for life if they talked to people, and particularly if they talked to people they don’t particularly care about rather than only swapping phone memes with kids they already know. Also, no one is saying there should be a complete ban on phones. The article simply suggests keeping the bedroom screen-free (better for sleep, studying, etc.). I went further to point out that as we’ve become more ‘social’ on phones we’re less social in society.
Very cool societal ideas. Please do not have children.
Do you realize how hostile the outside is to non-adults? Like genuinely I’ve seen people call the cops because there was a kid riding a bike unsuprivized in a suburban neighborhood. Malls are dying and there’s nothing to replace them as a meeting spot.
This isn’t even getting into the seeming requirement to spend what feels like 100$ to see a movie now or any of the other stereotypical hang outs. Or how many people have parents that simply do not have time to drive them places.
I’m genuinely interested in your response because I genuinely think the world has become actively hostile to kids being kids.
I think we need to unruin outside for the kids. I don’t care about phones
First bit: Why do we as a country (speaking from the U.S.) allow police to assualt the citizenry? Why aren’t we all in our town halls demanding the removal of any cops who handcuff kids, tackle people who don’t speak English, or fire guns at anyone who isn’t at that moment attacking someone? The police should be under our control by our consent. We elect their bosses if not the sheriffs themselves. Why aren’t we showing up in numbers in person to demand better?
Second bit: I know there are still some communities where kids can ride their bikes without fear because the parents still know everyone on the block. They might not like all the neighbors, but they know them and aren’t calling the cops on them. The bad part of that is a distrust of outsiders and unwillingness to accept anything different. Humans fall into us/them thinking too easily. As far as I have heard/read/seen, the best way to mitigate that is first-hand exposure to the ‘other’ because people tend to be better than whatever sterotype someone worries about. Reminiscing here: I remember visiting my grandparents and having them walk me into various houses on the block to chat with neighbors. It never occurred to me as a bored child that this was socially incorporating me into an insular community that might have been sucpsious of a strange kid biking around the same streets over and over if they didn’t know I belonged there.
That said, I don’t understand how the kids like me who grew up running wild wherever we wanted became parents who didn’t allow any roaming, and who’s kids then became adults that will call the cops before asking the neighbors. Maybe we move too often. Maybe we fear litigation. Mostly, I suspect, we work too many hours for not enough money such that adults don’t have the energy to form old-style communities where people banded together (both for good and bad), and instead everyone only bitches online just as I am doing right now.
You still have local second-run theaters where those still exist, plus parks and playgrounds where those haven’t been ruined yet, and depending on where you live, there may even be various art/craft places to hang out at, splatter-painting places included in that, and some of the nicer parts of the country even have interactive museums that are kid-friendly (as in actually interactive, like the patrons can actually interact and play with the exhibits there).
Aside from those, yeah, there isn’t much for kids to do.
sarcasm, but also not really if you're in a *really* low-income part of the country where there really *isn't* anything to do, think of places like Appalachia for a good example of that extremeNot in the suburban shithole I grew up in (late gen z)
You’re still ignoring the core problem in that children can’t do any of those things by themselves anymore and all of them cost some amount of money with the exception of playgrounds and parks. Growing up the closest one to me was about a 30 minute drive so I would never be able to get myself there.
So all you have to do is for everyone to move to a better neighbourhood, problem solved.
Sarcasm aside, in my neighbourhood there where some attempts to get together. Then people started complaining about eachother. Now at most a neighbour may wave back when i wave at them.
That’s screwed, and most of the places I mentioned, are generally in cities/towns that are pretty well off, as I mentioned in that ‘sarcasm, but not really’ disclaimer, places like Appalachia are truly screwed in that regard, and also your situation.
You’ll need to use a smartphone for most jobs nowadays, even just random dude in a supermarket.
Maybe not a smartphone, I mean you can still use calls and texts to call out sick answer calls about job interviews.
But yeah you’re not wrong in that smartphone do make life a lot smoother. For example if you want to check your payroll and w2 info, that is gonna require an app on a smartphone, and some of them even requires an app for 2fa because of (supposedly) the increase in fraud, and banking and job applications, while you don’t need a smartphone for those, you’re still gonna need access to a computer, so for someone without a computer, might as well get a smartphone instead of a dumbphone + a computer.
No, many jobs even trivial ones give you company phones so you can look stuff up, do inventory management etc
Are you in EU? Because in America, that’s not the norm.
To clarify, they do provide devices for things you do on the job, like scanning inventory for example, but not for the stuff you do outside of the job, stuff like checking your pay statements, schedule, and to call in sick, that’s expected to be done on your own devices, because that’s technically not needed for the job itself, even though its practically needed as a prerequisite for getting that job in the first place (Because how are you gonna fill out your job application? They don’t even take paper applications anymore, its all done online. You’ll need a phone number and some companies require an email address as well).
If your phone breaks after you got the job, that’s fine, you probably won’t have any problems if you work at a warehouse or fastfood place, but just hope you don’t get sick and need that phone to call them (because “no call, no show” get you fired).
I meant on the job. So people need smartphone skills to get a job. That’s what I meant.
I don’t disagree, but wouldn’t it be better if society rejected that demand from capitalism and forced them to change because people aren’t interested in using an app to shop in a fucking grocery store?
I meant to work at a store but your point still holds I guess