Canadian nurse was fired for anti trans post in her off time. It’s a bigger problem than people might think. Maybe the solution is stop posting online? I don’t know. Punishment for peoples personal opinions on the personal time/accounts is pretty dystopian.
Having a political opinion and hate speech are two different things. Teachers calling for deaths and nurses calling for the elimination of human beings rights should be subjected to scrutiny.
This is not a black and white issue.
I agree with you we should error on the side of caution and it is dystopian that something you say in a forum away from your job could cause you to lose it. What a strange world we live in.
It’s not wrong, it’s wrong to discriminate against them because of it. You cannot force people to accept things they don’t agree with for what ever their reason.
Your not a bad person because your anti minority, your a bad person if you don’t treat them like human beings.
You saying that as long as someone does not act on their discrimination then it is okay to discriminate, just in their mind? I think this goes without saying, but I agree. We are not going to police people’s thoughts (don’t give Elon any ideas).
However being human beings, I would also argue that this is practically impossible. If a person discriminates against a minority in their mind they will do this in real life. While there may be some people who have the mental will power to accomplish this, the majority do not.
This is why we have social pressure against people who promote hateful messages. Especially if these hateful messages are directed at minorities. This is because it creates a discriminatory environment where they can’t coexist in.
So while I do agree with your thought experiment, I don’t think it has any practical application.
I may be reading between the lines here, but I am guessing you or someone you know holds anti-minority beliefs. We often struggle with trying to explain our or others irrational beliefs.
Given that all humans have a natural right to life, saying that a minority group shouldn’t exist because of who/what they are is literally the opposite of treating them as human beings. It’s hate speech, period.
Who said that they don’t have a right to exist? I don’t agree with the entire construct of religion or anything else to do with it. But I don’t act or say that they don’t have right to exist.
Canadian nurse was fired for anti trans post in her off time.
Teacher -> personal opinion on politics = no intersection between job and statement.
Nurse -> personal opinion on somebody else’s health and body autonomy = huge intersection between statement and job.
Pretending to not see the difference only makes you look worse, and an eight year old child would be able to break the argument using nothing but a sharpie and a piece of paper.
🤦🏻♂️ nope. The same rights apply to all, or none. Your personal options are yours regardless of your profession. Your don’t bring your personal problems to work, or your opinions. I guess if old people bother me, I shouldn’t ever be allowed to work in a retirement home? There’s a separation between your job and your personal life regardless of what they are or “how they could intersect”. If you can’t keep them separate, then there’s a problem.
weird way to say “if I hold demonstrably anti-science positions on old people that will hurt them if i am not prevented from doing so” but yeah, basically. You shouldn’t work in an old-folks’ home if you’re gonna take your ignorance out on them. You’re probably fine to… i dunno… be a trashman or a programmer or something. It would just be irresponsible of both you and society for you to work with old folk in this case.
I guess. If part of your duties include giving medical advice or arranging medical procedures for people including pregnant people, it would be irresponsible both of the ignorant doctor and society to let that doctor administer anti-science medical advice, yeah.
Look, if this hypothetical person can control their Conservative urges enough to read modern science pertaining to their job and then act on it, and NOT act on their own beliefs, then i suppose, in a hypothetical modern, very accepting world in which this ignorance doesn’t fester into fascism and in which all grievances are addressed fairly and fully, i suppose you might have some vague philosophical point and it wouldn’t be irresponsible.
It seems incredibly naive to assume that no professionals personal views conflict with work place stances.
I’m sure it can and does. And theres ways of dealing with people acting on those such as dismissal. However, simply expressing those views is not a reason to fire someone. I do agree that’s it’s probably difficult for some to keep their personal views and professional ones separate, but that’s their responsibility to.
Hate speech crosses a line. There are exceptions to the first amendment. People can get sued for defamation. People can go to prison for making threats or conspiring to commit a crime. Hate speech directed at a protected class should also be punished.
I think anyone’s opinion can be considered hateful. There are many rules to what is classified as defamation to protect free speech. Saying you don’t like a group of people online is far from hate speech or defamation.
Which is why firing someone because you don’t agree with their personal opinions is fucked up, no matter what they are. It might be a bit different when your on broadcast news and “representing” the corporation.
I did specify protected class. That means no hate speech towards people based on race, culture, nationality, and ethnicity, gender and sexuality, religion, age, disability, etc.
Note that political affiliation and wealth are not protected classes.
I do not think it is dystopian or fucked up to fire someone because of hate speech. I would not want to be treated by a bigoted nurse. I wouldn’t trust that they would treat me properly. And I wouldn’t want to work with a bigoted person. I would be afraid of them. These people are bad for companies and cause loses. They should be fired. And that’s just looking at it from an economical point of view.
It sounds like you’re acting as Judge jury and executioner for somebody’s personal opinion. If it’s affecting their job or how they’re treating people that’s different. That’s a separate issue. But for somebody to make a joke or to express how they disagree with something And lose their job over it because the establishment they work for might not have the same view IS messed up. Your Personal views towards anything should not dictate whether or not you get to keep your job. It is your actions within the workplace that determine that.
The issue is that they are causing real harm by expressing those views. I know that there are people out there who hate me just because I exist and I know that will never change. While their words do not directly hurt me, they have the capability to incite physical violence against me which definitely can hurt me. It is not just me I worry about. My heart breaks for the victims of hate speech. People kill themselves because of it. People get murdered because of it. That is why it needs to be illegal.
Canadian nurse was fired for anti trans post in her off time. It’s a bigger problem than people might think. Maybe the solution is stop posting online? I don’t know. Punishment for peoples personal opinions on the personal time/accounts is pretty dystopian.
Having a political opinion and hate speech are two different things. Teachers calling for deaths and nurses calling for the elimination of human beings rights should be subjected to scrutiny.
This is not a black and white issue.
I agree with you we should error on the side of caution and it is dystopian that something you say in a forum away from your job could cause you to lose it. What a strange world we live in.
I never said that it was hate speech, people don’t have to like minority groups if they don’t agree with them.
I said it on purpose because I knew where you were going. Not liking a minority group just because they exist is wrong and hateful.
You can post her message here and we can talk about it. Maybe she is just misinformed or it was taken out of context. I am curious now.
It’s not wrong, it’s wrong to discriminate against them because of it. You cannot force people to accept things they don’t agree with for what ever their reason.
Your not a bad person because your anti minority, your a bad person if you don’t treat them like human beings.
You saying that as long as someone does not act on their discrimination then it is okay to discriminate, just in their mind? I think this goes without saying, but I agree. We are not going to police people’s thoughts (don’t give Elon any ideas).
However being human beings, I would also argue that this is practically impossible. If a person discriminates against a minority in their mind they will do this in real life. While there may be some people who have the mental will power to accomplish this, the majority do not.
This is why we have social pressure against people who promote hateful messages. Especially if these hateful messages are directed at minorities. This is because it creates a discriminatory environment where they can’t coexist in.
So while I do agree with your thought experiment, I don’t think it has any practical application.
I may be reading between the lines here, but I am guessing you or someone you know holds anti-minority beliefs. We often struggle with trying to explain our or others irrational beliefs.
I do think it’s a difficult thing for most to do which is a big problem.
Given that all humans have a natural right to life, saying that a minority group shouldn’t exist because of who/what they are is literally the opposite of treating them as human beings. It’s hate speech, period.
Who said that they don’t have a right to exist? I don’t agree with the entire construct of religion or anything else to do with it. But I don’t act or say that they don’t have right to exist.
Teacher -> personal opinion on politics = no intersection between job and statement. Nurse -> personal opinion on somebody else’s health and body autonomy = huge intersection between statement and job.
Pretending to not see the difference only makes you look worse, and an eight year old child would be able to break the argument using nothing but a sharpie and a piece of paper.
🤦🏻♂️ nope. The same rights apply to all, or none. Your personal options are yours regardless of your profession. Your don’t bring your personal problems to work, or your opinions. I guess if old people bother me, I shouldn’t ever be allowed to work in a retirement home? There’s a separation between your job and your personal life regardless of what they are or “how they could intersect”. If you can’t keep them separate, then there’s a problem.
Keep sniffing those sharpies.
correct
Incorrect.
huh would you look at that
weird way to say “if I hold demonstrably anti-science positions on old people that will hurt them if i am not prevented from doing so” but yeah, basically. You shouldn’t work in an old-folks’ home if you’re gonna take your ignorance out on them. You’re probably fine to… i dunno… be a trashman or a programmer or something. It would just be irresponsible of both you and society for you to work with old folk in this case.
So if your a doctor and disagree with abortions you shouldn’t be a doctor anymore?
I guess. If part of your duties include giving medical advice or arranging medical procedures for people including pregnant people, it would be irresponsible both of the ignorant doctor and society to let that doctor administer anti-science medical advice, yeah.
It seems incredibly naive to assume that any professionals personal views don’t diverge from the accepted work place stance.
Look, if this hypothetical person can control their Conservative urges enough to read modern science pertaining to their job and then act on it, and NOT act on their own beliefs, then i suppose, in a hypothetical modern, very accepting world in which this ignorance doesn’t fester into fascism and in which all grievances are addressed fairly and fully, i suppose you might have some vague philosophical point and it wouldn’t be irresponsible.
It seems incredibly naive to assume that no professionals personal views conflict with work place stances.
I’m sure it can and does. And theres ways of dealing with people acting on those such as dismissal. However, simply expressing those views is not a reason to fire someone. I do agree that’s it’s probably difficult for some to keep their personal views and professional ones separate, but that’s their responsibility to.
if you don’t want to provide medicine you should look into different fields than medicine
Hate speech crosses a line. There are exceptions to the first amendment. People can get sued for defamation. People can go to prison for making threats or conspiring to commit a crime. Hate speech directed at a protected class should also be punished.
I think anyone’s opinion can be considered hateful. There are many rules to what is classified as defamation to protect free speech. Saying you don’t like a group of people online is far from hate speech or defamation.
Which is why firing someone because you don’t agree with their personal opinions is fucked up, no matter what they are. It might be a bit different when your on broadcast news and “representing” the corporation.
I did specify protected class. That means no hate speech towards people based on race, culture, nationality, and ethnicity, gender and sexuality, religion, age, disability, etc.
Note that political affiliation and wealth are not protected classes.
I do not think it is dystopian or fucked up to fire someone because of hate speech. I would not want to be treated by a bigoted nurse. I wouldn’t trust that they would treat me properly. And I wouldn’t want to work with a bigoted person. I would be afraid of them. These people are bad for companies and cause loses. They should be fired. And that’s just looking at it from an economical point of view.
It sounds like you’re acting as Judge jury and executioner for somebody’s personal opinion. If it’s affecting their job or how they’re treating people that’s different. That’s a separate issue. But for somebody to make a joke or to express how they disagree with something And lose their job over it because the establishment they work for might not have the same view IS messed up. Your Personal views towards anything should not dictate whether or not you get to keep your job. It is your actions within the workplace that determine that.
The issue is that they are causing real harm by expressing those views. I know that there are people out there who hate me just because I exist and I know that will never change. While their words do not directly hurt me, they have the capability to incite physical violence against me which definitely can hurt me. It is not just me I worry about. My heart breaks for the victims of hate speech. People kill themselves because of it. People get murdered because of it. That is why it needs to be illegal.