Former first lady Michelle Obama said at a recent event that the US isn’t ready for a woman president, pointing to former Vice President Kamala Harris’ unsuccessful bid for the White House last year.
Must be a culture difference thing. They’re certainly not, in the UK, at least in my experience.
I’ve just searched it up and you’re right, I was wrong; if I search ‘“likeable” misogynist term’ or ‘“aggressive” misogynist term’, I do find a study that references “aggressive” being used more for women, which is honestly surprising to me, I apologise!
I didn’t quite find the same for “likeable”, the results seemed more about how women report having to be more amenable in the workplace to avoid being seen as “difficult”, which I totally agree is a problem but isn’t really what we’re talking about re the terms.
@hotdogcharmer@leadore I absolutely assure you likeability is an issue for women in the workplace in the UK. Signed, a British woman.
Look up “likeability trap”, though - it’s the name of a campaign tactic used against women in politics. It’s an ongoing problem.
@hotdogcharmer It’s not that they’re not used about men, it’s that people don’t consider likeability in men as an important factor when determining their competence as a leader. And in terms of aggression: men who are “aggressive” are “strong leaders”. Women who are “aggressive” are “unlikeable”. These terms work together. Aggressive can be used about both but it is only a pejorative for one.
I can certainly understand that and have heard that before for sure. I think the thing that’s worrying me is like, how do I avoid using terms that are pejoratives like “aggressive” without realising that they’re loaded in that way when used about women? I’m sure there are more issues at play for me, such as not knowing enough about how misogyny looks and not facing my own misogyny, but one issue I can identify is that I certainly don’t think men who are “aggressive” are “strong leaders”. I guess that’s part of why I initially and incorrectly rejected that as a misogynistic term.
One of the clients I work for at the moment is a big company, and the CEO is exactly what I’d call an “aggressive” man, and he’s a fucking dick. It sucks working for him. I’ve been told in performance reviews to be nicer about him. I just don’t find pig-headedness, stubbornness, aggressiveness, etc. to be helpful traits in a team setting!
I do want to get better at recognising, understanding and changing these misogynistic terms or thought patterns in myself, though!
Thanks. Did you try searching for “unlikeable” instead of “likeable”? Here’s one about that. I suspect the UK isn’t much different.
(edit to add a quote from AOC in that article:)
When you call Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris ‘unlikeable’, that’s an unsubstantial, unsubstantive, fluff, bulls**t, misogynistic word to use. Unlikeable? What is that? It’s not a policy critique.” --AOC
I didn’t, I focused on “likeable”. Thanks for the link, I do clearly have a lot to learn and would like to. There’s just so much I don’t see, whether that’s that I just don’t pay attention, or don’t experience it as a man, or that I don’t want to recognise what I do see.
I appreciate your time, and I’ll work to educate myself 👍
Oh, they definitely are.
Must be a culture difference thing. They’re certainly not, in the UK, at least in my experience.
I’ve just searched it up and you’re right, I was wrong; if I search ‘“likeable” misogynist term’ or ‘“aggressive” misogynist term’, I do find a study that references “aggressive” being used more for women, which is honestly surprising to me, I apologise!
I didn’t quite find the same for “likeable”, the results seemed more about how women report having to be more amenable in the workplace to avoid being seen as “difficult”, which I totally agree is a problem but isn’t really what we’re talking about re the terms.
@hotdogcharmer @leadore I absolutely assure you likeability is an issue for women in the workplace in the UK. Signed, a British woman.
Look up “likeability trap”, though - it’s the name of a campaign tactic used against women in politics. It’s an ongoing problem.
You’re right, I am aware of that as an issue, but I wasn’t aware that the actual terms “likeable” or “unlikeable” were loaded like that
@hotdogcharmer It’s not that they’re not used about men, it’s that people don’t consider likeability in men as an important factor when determining their competence as a leader. And in terms of aggression: men who are “aggressive” are “strong leaders”. Women who are “aggressive” are “unlikeable”. These terms work together. Aggressive can be used about both but it is only a pejorative for one.
I can certainly understand that and have heard that before for sure. I think the thing that’s worrying me is like, how do I avoid using terms that are pejoratives like “aggressive” without realising that they’re loaded in that way when used about women? I’m sure there are more issues at play for me, such as not knowing enough about how misogyny looks and not facing my own misogyny, but one issue I can identify is that I certainly don’t think men who are “aggressive” are “strong leaders”. I guess that’s part of why I initially and incorrectly rejected that as a misogynistic term.
One of the clients I work for at the moment is a big company, and the CEO is exactly what I’d call an “aggressive” man, and he’s a fucking dick. It sucks working for him. I’ve been told in performance reviews to be nicer about him. I just don’t find pig-headedness, stubbornness, aggressiveness, etc. to be helpful traits in a team setting!
I do want to get better at recognising, understanding and changing these misogynistic terms or thought patterns in myself, though!
Thanks. Did you try searching for “unlikeable” instead of “likeable”? Here’s one about that. I suspect the UK isn’t much different.
(edit to add a quote from AOC in that article:)
I didn’t, I focused on “likeable”. Thanks for the link, I do clearly have a lot to learn and would like to. There’s just so much I don’t see, whether that’s that I just don’t pay attention, or don’t experience it as a man, or that I don’t want to recognise what I do see.
I appreciate your time, and I’ll work to educate myself 👍