The US was never really a democracy. It’s an oligarchy.
Citizens United was a tipping point. If corporations are people and can give without limit to political campaigns, then only corporate choices will win. The others won’t even make the ballot. It is 100% a fix.
Was there democracy before Citizens United? Maybe. Certainly more than now.
This is exactly what people said would happen when citizen united happened yet nobody did anything to stop or reverse it. It’s not like Democrats didn’t have the option to do so, they just didn’t care either
What the US needs is a parliamentary democracy
That is, besides it needing to break up into 50 independent countries because it’s obvious by now that a few of the states are dead set of fucking everyone else over just to ensure their racism, bigotry, and religion gets forced down everyone’s throat everywhere.
Let it break in into independent states, and the red states will turn into third world banana republic dictatorships within a few years and won’t be able to feed their own population. They’ll get what they want for themselves and the rest of the US states can independently continue becoming civilized nations.
I’m not super knowledgeable on American donation laws, are there limits to how much a “person” can donate to a campaign? In Canada it’s limited to around CAD$3000-$5000 but I guess if corporations (sorry, “people”), can dump tons of cash into campaigns it means there’s no limit in the US?
It does.
However, corporations are not people when it comes to consequences.
It’s yet another classic example of socialize the risk, privatize the profit.
This. Corporations on paper should have consequences like a person. In practice, they can do whatever they want, because the US Government worships capitalism. More so than the people.
If corporations are people, they should be able to be given the death sentance. I can think of a few that are directly responsible for the deaths of a lot of people, and all they had to do was pay some fines/lawsuits. DuPont comes to mind.
I honestly might make a non-profit that just makes everyone resisting this regime into a corporate entity.
I’ma dumb-fuck so help is needed.
Fun idea, unfortunately what empowers those corporations, besides the system they thrive in, is the fact that they have immense wealth commandeered by a select few, not their sole legal status.
Yeah rip
There are limits on how much can be donated to a campaign and how hidden those amounts and donors can be to an extent. But there are no limits on how much somebody not associated or affiliated with the campaign can spend on messaging for the campaign. This is where Super PACs and dark money come in.
Overturn Citizens United.
Was really hoping he would realize he’s old as fuck and just go full out calling for violent revolution. There is still time.
No, you aren’t, and haven’t been for my entire fucking life.
The U.S. has never been a democracy, never mind within our lifetimes. If voting is all that’s required to be a democracy then so are both China and Russia.
Gerrymandering, the practise of drawing funky voting districts to skew the results has been a practise since the early 1800s. Even so, votes don’t count on an individual basis.
In essence, politicians can manipulate districts to ensure that they come out as a majority despite having a minority base. If your vote loses in a district, it essentially doesn’t count. Further, if you win, it doesn’t go towards a presidential candidate, it goes to a some dipshit electorate who is meant to represent your voice in a separate vote, but they could decide to vote against your interests anyway. Then there’s the whole two party system aspect.
I get why people don’t vote. It’s entirely pointless because the system is a sham. The only winning move is to break it down and build something new.
I keep seeing responses along these lines and I feel that, while essentially correct, they oversimplify the situation in ways that are misleading.
The US government has undergone a huge qualitative change in the last year. It was far from perfect before then, but the rule of law, however badly realized, is now gone. The mechanisms are still there, and could still be restored, but when we have to ask whether the executive branch will abide by court rulings, we do not have it at present.
The current situation had its origin around fifty years ago, when the rich took over the Republican party, stopped acting in good faith, and began seriously gaming the system to take power and become richer. Before that, there were still plenty of issues, but we had been heading in the direction of improved civil rights and better protections for individual citizens. Now we have a two-party system where one of them does not represent most of its own members and is intent on completely subjugating the other party. It does not want to govern, it wants to rule.
Our system of government has always had problems, it has never been entirely fair, but it had been gradually improving over time. Acting as if nothing special has happened with that lately is ingenuous.
Couldn’t agree more.
However, yea, votes don’t count on an individual basis, that’s inherent to any decision making system that evenly splits decision making power between thousands of people of not millions (if not billions if you’d even hope for an actual world wide democracy)
That’s even the whole point of it. And no, I don’t mean that in the sense of how liberal democracies with unbridled capitalism make the average vote/voice meaningless compared to what a billionaire can achieve by spending only the tinyest fraction of his wealth. Indeed, a true democracy would and should make the individual vote/voice of any individual by theirselves meaningless, and that should include billionaires, self-serving autocrats and what not.
Um… no
Short answer: No.
Vivian Wilson should run for city council just to watch her father squirm
“No.” Responds everyone that tired of stupid fucking question like this- in place of actual action.
Shit or get off the pot- ALL OF YOU.
Ozma responds!… “since sanders is a rabid conservative only voting 99 times out of 100 for liberal stuff… thus not really liberal… he’s not enough! he is proof libs are the same as rush Limbaugh!
Meanwhile Sanders congresses and votes with the dem party…
Are we not living in a democracy! No! And it’s Biden’s fault! Trump is a foot note and the real problem is Obama! The issue is democrats!
Can’t you see? Every democrat is the problem! It’s not a matter of voting more liberal, liberals are the issue! It’s not a matter of voting hard core liberal either! There’s no such thing unless I say so! Just look at OP for the past few years…
If you’re asking this stupid fucking question you’re already too late. These people live on a different planet
Yeah, let’s no longer discuss it. The oligarchs won. Accept it, losers. Stop talking about it and go about your lives. Discussing it just makes you look like you’re a real idiot! Give up already. America is no longer a democracy. Stop expecting it to be. Pay attention, understand what’s happened, and then let that be as far as it goes for you. There is no point. We have no power. Roll over and die.
We are fighting harder than I hope you ever have to. When your city is under siege and 3000 masked criminals are running around the streets you grew up on UNCHECKED murdering and kidnapping your friends, then come talk to me. Motherfucker I’ve looked these fuckers in the eye and been trampled and gassed. We are bringing shit to people who are in hiding full on Anne Frank style. And you have the temerity to come on here, make assumptions, and tell me I’ve given up?? Why don’t YOU do something other than talk? Rot in hell. My issue is with someone asking if we are still a democracy. From where I’m sitting that is an asinine question. Fascism is already here. And I don’t really feel like hearing from anyone who is still leaving us here to deal with it on our own. And don’t call out my attitude, I no longer sleep or eat and couldn’t give a fuck.
Why aren’t you getting violent?
Fuck off
Maybe try hugging the Nazis? Sternly worded email? You know that’s how Hitler got taken down.
Considering the op, it is a q asked in bad faith
Actshually the question is asked by Sanders.
Of course it’s clearly some kind of rhetorical question.
How does a rhetorical question help your statement? How does a rhetorical q asked in bad faith make anything better?
What are you really getting at?
Just to be sure that we are on the same page:
- we have op (return2ozma) posting a news article.
- the title of the post is the title of the article, which is pretty good practice when relaying a news article on social media.
- the title of the post quotes a question asked by B. Sanders.
- what you know of op makesyou claim that he asks the question in bad faith.
- I remark op isn’t the one asking the question.
- I add that it’s a rhetorical question.
Now to answer your last comment, what I was getting at with my second point, and which is maybe not that all pertinent in hindsight, is that it’s kind of hard to make out from a rhetorical question alone what the author ‘s stance might actually be exactly. Maybe Sanders thinks that the extent of Musk’s donations might suggest the US not being a true democracy, maybe he thinks that this is in contradiction with an otherwise healthy democracy, maybe he thinks there’s nothing democratic about the current US political system ; or any shade between these. All in all, the conclusion is left to the reader.
In light of all this, the fact that op could be a bad actor is not very pertinent : it’s not his words, and even if it was, the nature of the question and its effect on the reader is quite open ended and IMO not as manipulative as « bad faith » would imply.
Edit: the important point being that op is not the author of the question. The rhetorical question remark was first and foremost there to point it out in case you missed it.
To be on the same page look at comments of OP. Bad faith takes a lot of faith on your end. So in the end you’re sticking out your neck for a commenter who basically says the left half of the country is GeNoCiDaL for Fox News… all while the right half upvotes.
Yeah whatever… I scrolled through both your and his comments… (some of it - I’d take your word that I missed out the juicy bits, but it would help if you explained in clear language what I should be looking for)
So yeah, I’m not really sure what you’re on about. Sure, there seems to be some dubious (IMHO) takes here and there from both of you. Then again, I’m sure I could find some of my own comments to be rather dubious when taking them out of context.
Besides, if I may offer some advice, combining a very adversarial posture, altcaps as a cheap way to pastiche op, and an inability to clearly communicate what your grief with op is in the first place really doesn’t help make your point.
Now, in the light of what little I’ve seen of your comments, I’m guessing op has been advocating abstaining in your last presidential election due to the ongoing US-supported genocide in Palestine. I understand you are pissed off about that, I fail to see how going on a witch hunt after the fact, badmouthing op on every comment in a post that has nothing to do with that issue is achieving anything. Especially when the post is just some rather mild news article with no commentary from OP himself. Especially when you make it really hard to understand what you are on about.
This infighting between you non-MAGA Americans, while fascism is sweeping through your country, is quite ridiculous at this point. You’ll have plenty of opportunities to settle the scores if you succeed in getting out of this mess, and in the meanwhile, we all have much bigger problems to worry about than who did what in 2024.
I’m not really sticking out my neck for op, I frankly don’t care. I’m sticking it out to keep lemmy a place for sane and constructive exchanges and discussions.
The infighting between non magas is exactly what I’m talking about and directly led to Trump v 2.
A direct line can be drawn between their rhetoric and the current situation. No score to settle, just the obvious to point out.
This is what did it for you, Bernie? Not the Princeton research? Not the genocides? Not the decades of unauthorized wars? Not the 100-mile zone? Not the “enemy combatant” designation? Not free speech zones? Not the WikiLeaks revelations? Not the Snowden revelations? Not the disaster capitalism? Not the commitment to invade The Hague if ever brought up on charges?
A $10M donation did it? That’s what makes you wonder?
Bernie fully understands. He’s giving speeches to try to wake people the fuck up. He’s just trying different angles with the hope that something sticks for enough stupid Americans.
I mean, for decades every time shit like this happens he makes the same or a similar statement. He’s been constant with his messaging.
It’s not a question asked in good faith. It’s a bad actor stirring shit just as they did during the election
I dunno Bernie. Maybe you could have given that some forethought because treating elections that Trump was running as a game.
This is an article posted by someone who directly contributed to Elon musk’s post election position. This isn’t a good faith argument. It’s meant to waste your time
