If so, can you explain the value aside from changing location for streaming?
Im not sure if it works but you might be able to buy some steam games for cheaper.
While your ISP can’t see everything, they can see metadata. They can see which websites you go to, which social media you use the most, where you bank, where you shop, etc. How much do you think it would take for your ISP to sell that data? If you happen to live somewhere there are laws againat that, you are slightly less at risk. Fines are only a deterrant if they’re more than what’s being offered for your data.
That being said, this only protects you against your ISP or other purely ipaddress based info gatherers. Apps/social media/websites don’t purely use ipaddresses to track you.
Encrypt DNS
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure this just encrypts your dns requests. After DNS resolution, the traffic packet headers still have destination/source ip addresses and they can reverse dns lookup the ip addresses. Might make it require a few extra steps, but they’re the ones routing the traffic. Even your VPN traffic, they can’t decrypt what’s inside the packets, but they can see your traffic going to a known Mullvad vpn address in Norway or whatever.
Correct.
Sorry, I still don‘t quite understand. So if I don‘t trust my ISP, why should I trust a VPN provider? Doesn‘t the vpn provider get the same metadata?
I’m not saying you should trust every VPN provider. Some have shown to be nore trustworthy than others. Police have raided their datacenrers and not gotten anything (no logs). And they have gone to courts and said they don’t keep that info. However if you don’t trust your ISP, and purely use a VPN, the only info your ISP will get is that you use a VPN. Your encrypted bank packet that they saw before is now an encrypted vpn packet. The vpn will see the encrypted bank packet, but youmre right, you have to trust that they have more to gain by not looking and selling than they gain by selling your info and losing customers.
Thanks for the explanation
The legal thing you’re doing today might not be legal tomorrow – and there’s potential for you having been recorded doing that suddenly illegal thing in the past.
I have nothing to hideI have nothing to hide TODAY
Took me a minute to find it again, but there was an excellent essay answering this question. From https://thompson2026.com/blog/deviancy-signal/ :
There’s a special kind of contempt I reserve for the person who says, “I have nothing to hide.” It’s not the gentle pity you’d have for the naive. It’s the cold, hard anger you hold for a collaborator. Because these people aren’t just surrendering their own liberty. They’re instead actively forging the chains for the rest of us. They are a threat, and I think it’s time they were told so.
…
On a societal scale, this inaction becomes a collective betrayal. The power of the Deviancy Signal is directly proportional to the number of people who live transparently. Every person who refuses to practice privacy adds another gallon of clean, clear water to the state’s pool, making any ripple of dissent … any deviation … starkly visible. This is not a passive choice. By refusing to help create a chaotic, noisy baseline of universal privacy, you are actively making the system more effective. You are failing to do your part to make the baseline all deviant, and in doing so, you make us all more vulnerable.
So using signal for benign chatting between friends is praxis? Nice
Beautifully said. Every time someone brings up the “nothing to hide” argument it always pisses me off, yet I’m often not able to put into words properly why I feel about it this way
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MULLVAD-VPN. It’s cheap as chips, no signup, no sign in. Just an account code that signs you in. €4.5 a MONTH.
When Nazis take power, everyone has something to hide
But yes, protection from compromised LANs or public wi-fi
If you’re in the UK, suddenly being in a different country can be beneficial if you don’t feel like having your face scanned or giving away your credit card details before engaging in some self-care.
Or just see a fucking meme hosted on imgur
before engaging in some self-care.
Or correcting some hasbara bullshit on Wikipedia.
Yes. Absolutely. Privacy is for everyone.
You are assuming that the things legal and illegal today will continue to align with your morality. “I don’t do anything bad” only holds value while you and your governing body share beliefs.
What if tomorrow you disagree? Suddenly there would be a long history of potentially incriminating internet history associated with you. What if it’s for something you can’t even control, such as “using the internet while female” in a society that recently banned women from using the internet?
This level of paranoia shouldn’t be required yet look at the state of the world.
A VPN doesn’t just allow you to change your location. It’s a tunnel between you and someone you trust (a VPN provider). All your traffic shows up as originating from the trusted partners address do that it cannot be traced back to you. They offer this to lots of customers and if your VPN provider is worth their salt, anonymizes these interactions so that they can’t even tell people who did what.
I use mine to maintain control of my home server while out of the house
Why not tailscale?
Tailscale is a VPN.
You are right, I took the thread as VPN in the more common sense
Unfortunately the common usage of vpn is as a proxy and not as a virtual private network.
I’ve used both and tailscale is definitely more better for this purpose, but the downside to tailscale is that it is proprietary and some day will enshittification. There’s no way they’ll keep being free the way they are currently free for private use.
Interesting
As a private person doing nothing illegal, is there value in having curtains on your windows ?
It’s not a question of whether there are things I’d like to hide, and why I want to hide them. It’s simply a natural desire to only disclose my personal affairs to specific parties for specific purposes.
Suppose I go to the pharmacy for some paracetamol and they ask to see a list of all the people I’ve emailed in the last 6 months, or at the supermarket I need to share my search history for the last 6 months.
There’s nothing illegal or anything I would be really embarrassed about, but it would be absolutely absurd. That’s the way the modern internet is built though.
There’s value in real privacy friendly VPNs (think Mullvad), otherwise you just end up trusting some other, probably very shady actors with all your data instead.
Unless you need one for specific things like using free wifi safely, torrenting or getting around restrictions then there is not much benefit.
Most VPNs won’t even work for daily browsing as far as I’m aware. You’ll get hit with way more captchas and potentially just not be able to access certain sites because someone has either got the vpn providers ip banned temporarily on the site or the site bans IP addresses associated with servers.
Personally, for generic browsing, I’m not too concerned if my ISP can see the domain names I’m accessing. I, as you probably do, only use HTTPS everywhere so the domain name is the most they’ll know, but you can do some work to try limiting exposure with DNS over HTTPS (DoH), etc if you want to.
There’s also TLS 1.3 addition of ECH which further helps by hiding the hostname.
Of course your ISP will always know the IP address you send packets to, but that is an even smaller problem.
And my final note: just use one when you need to, I don’t think it’s necessary to have one on 24/7 at home like some people advise and NEVER use a free vpn or one of the more mainstream ones (mullvad is best, second choice is AirVPN).
Of course. Th legal things you do today can be made illegal tomorrow.
Privacy should be the default, not the exception.
You could be another user resisting surveillance, or another user contributing to it.
The choice is yours.
Here’s a free VPN: https://riseup.net/en/vpn
Yes, privacy should be the default. However, there is a limit for what is practical.
A VPN adds latency to your connection. It adds an additional failure point. If you don’t need it, why use it? Most people don’t need privacy at that level.
Additionally VPNs are not free.
For the ones that claim to be free, you have to remember that if you’re not paying, you are the product.
What privacy do VPNs provide to the average user when not doing anything illegal? Absolutely zero. You might claim “but VPNs hide my traffic from my ISP!” And it is true, but in doing so you expose it to the VPN provider. In the end, unless you operate your own network, you will have to tell someone where you are going. Using a VPN is just kicking the can.
Of course if your ISP is known for doing shady stuff and there is a VPN that you fully trust, it may be worth it.
But I swear the VPN industry has wiped people’s minds with millions of ads so they’re not thinking anymore.
You’re a useful idiot.
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Who do you trust more, the neighbor who closes their blinds or the neighbor running around house to house trying to look in everyone’s windows?
Yes, even if you trust people in positions of power with access to that data which there are tons of evidence to not do that, laws change and the people enforcing the laws change. Not using a VPN is telling your ISP and potentially thousands of advertisers and dozens of governments everything you search for, private messages if you’re not using a peer to peer encrypted messaging app, and all of the meta data indicating where you are & when you sleep or are alone. Intelligence agencies run programs like those leaked (not just the US but definitely including them) and when there was little to no political backlash when those were revealed you can assume they are doing much worse now.
“Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.” - Snowden
Either everyone’s data is public and transparent or nobody’s is, partial selection is just asking to be used as a weapon against the people being snooped on.
