- cross-posted to:
- hackernews
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews
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I’m all for Europe doing their own thing. I’m an American and even I hate seeing the US use it’s position for bully politics. No citizen of any other country should ever thing that an American company or govt will treat them with dignity or respect. Look at how we treat each other.
if Turkey was able to do it with Troy, why not Europe with Wero? Hope it all goes well
Interesting
Efforts are underway to expand the international e-commerce presence of TROY, which is already widely used and 100% accepted at all retail locations and e-commerce platforms across Turkey.
source Translated with translate.kagi.com
Costco broke up with VISA so, it’s possible. Re-establish the Templars again as the new money lenders from old.
When was that? I still can’t use my credit cards there unless they are visa
The Costco in Canada I go to only accepts Master Card.
They accept cash.
Great if you don’t mind a wallet overflowing with loose change.
Crazy that we don’t have a public sector payment processor, though. You’d think we could have a Generic Card tied to a public bank that handles electronic payments efficiently. But it’s been over 40 years since we began consumer grade electronic transactions and its still entirely within the scope of the private sector.
Interac isn’t too bad right? I agree with you that sort of service should be public, but I heard (years ago) that Interac is non-profit.
Edit: I should have just checked before posting: “Interac and Acxsys were combined into a single for-profit organization, Interac Corporation, on 1 February 2018”
Still, talking to vendors, it sounds like the fees are quite low, and I try to pay debit when it’s a small business.
Interac is non-profit.
OpenAI started out as non-profit. Quite a few health insurance companies (Blue Cross Blue Shield, for instance) are organized as non-profits.
shrug
Still, talking to vendors, it sounds like the fees are quite low, and I try to pay debit when it’s a small business.
Sure. All good when it works for you. But this isn’t some kind of wholesale replacement for Visa that doesn’t run the obvious risk of becoming Visa 2.0 (or whatever X.0 iteration of credit card companies we’re currently on).
One of the things I heard Musk say was that it shouldn’t be possible for a non-profit to just be converted into for-profit. Have to agree with him on that.
You want trump in control of our commercial transactions?
He’s appointing the next Fed chair as we speak. We’re a bit past feeling squeamish about what Trump controls.
So then you do understand how having our transactions controlled by the government is a bad thing?
In america they have a partnership with visa and don’t take other cards unless they are debit. Mexico Costco also takes discover and other cards
Discover wants a $25k retainer from me to take them as an option. Its just not realistic for smaller businesses when they have such a small footprint.
Europe’s $24 Trillion
Great, now nobody knows how much that is (other than a lot).
100K is a lot. 24T is unfathomable. :)
Yeah, but long scale unfathomable, or short scale unfathomable?
It’s transactions at the scale of a continent rather than a household or a business. Hardly unfathomable. Just bigger.
I’m glad to see Visa suffer, but I’m pretty concerned that Wero requires a proprietary phone app. There is no way to shop using Wero without this proprietary software.
Wero is intregrated into the banking apps we already have. In Germany the banks ING, Volksbank and Sparkasse already implemented it.
That’s just a different proprietary app though.
It doesn’t require an app. When you pay, you select your bank and it will redirect you to a page that the bank provides. My bank provides a QR-code I can scan with their banking app, but it also offers a log in form to pay.
So I guess it is based on what your bank is willing to provide.
This is based on my experience with ‘iDeal’ the predecessor of wero.
Is Wero OpenSource ? Between me & you, I really hope GNU-Taler gets mass adoption they are on version 1.3 I think
Alas I don’t think the USA will have the political stability to ultimately allow the adoption of an alternative. There is zero point building something that also accommodates the USA right now as the new King is quite likely to ban it and waste all the time put into it. Even a treaty put in place wouldn’t stop this from happening, so frankly its not worth an EU or any other countries company anticipating doing anything with the USA for the foreseeable future.
Personally, I think having WERO available to Americans would be a good thing for Europe. It aligns the American population more closely to Europe, and if America has a civil war, Europe would have stronger economic ties with the side they favor.
As an American, I certainly wouldn’t mind using WERO. Aside from buying my hentai games without censorship, I would like to keep my money in a safe institution. DOGE broke into America’s social security systems, and exfiltrated data that includes things like bank account numbers. It wouldn’t be surprising if Donald withdraws money from his enemies, without any oversight. Or just orders the banks to do so on his behalf, with ICE in every branch.
Point being, I don’t trust America with my wealth. Europe should use that feeling as a springboard for global spread of the Euro.
allow the adoption of an alternative
Why would the EU need an approval from the USA?
USA can use whatever the fuck they want. This is to replace all the transactions happening within the EU.
Having your own transactions system is a big win for the EU, even if no other countries adopt it, and it’s a massive loss for the USA.
I don’t think the USA will have the political stability to ultimately allow the adoption of an alternative.
“Stablecoins” exist and are among the most popular cryptos (1).
the new King is quite likely to ban it
Trump literally has his own stablecoin (2), not to mention other crypto grifts.
At the end of the day capitalism is a grift regardless of the food chips used.
Yeah, i was thinking the same thing. Changing one evil for another.
I’m all for a European system like this, but the only downside I currently see is that using Wero wouldn’t provide any protection in the same way that a credit card does, unless I missed that on the Wero website.
Give me the consumer protection of a credit card and I’ll sign up to Wero or whoever!
Does Visa/Mastercard actually offer any protection themselves? When I’ve had to reverse debit card transactions due to fraud or otherwise, I always just called/reached out to my bank and they did it. I never communicated with Visa/MC. Since this system is pretty much SEPA in a trench coat, I’m pretty sure the same would work here.
Visa/Mastercard requires all cardholders, cardholders’ banks, merchants, and merchants’ processors to follow the comprehensive set of rules for disputed transactions. That way the dispute process tends to be uniform across different banks and across different merchant/payment processors.
The network sets the rules, while the banks implement those rules on behalf of the cardholder and the processor implements those rules on behalf of the merchant.
So replacing the network will require a comprehensive replacement for the network’s dispute resolution rules (assigning who is responsible for paying when certain things happens) and procedures (how a cardholder can initiate a dispute and how that gets resolved).
As far as they writes the rules, no thanks
Ok, so this makes the most sense to me. This would indeed need to be handled, I think the best solution is for EU to come up with a set of dispute resolution procedures and pass it as a law for everyone to follow. That way, disputes would be resolved the same way regardless of what network or bank you are using, which sounds the most reasonable to me.
Yes they do offer actual protections.
A debit card while using visas processing network is still your banks account and their responsibility. And it’s your personal money. Unlike a credit card which is NOT your money and not your sole liability. You are jointly liable with a credit card and solely liable with a debit card.
A credit card the account is with visa, tho it may be managed by your bank thanks to partnerships and bank end integration. Depending on the circumstances you actually will be directed by your bank to contact visa or who ever directly or be forwarded by your bank.
Debit cards are not credit cards. This seems to be a weird hang up people can’t seem to understand. Doubly so when they are from Europe. It’s always struck me as odd.
Yeah - that’s why I always use credit if I can. If someone steals my credit card, I’m protected. The money doesn’t even leave my account, so I don’t have to worry about losing access to my funds for a few days while everything is worked out.
Aha, interesting. I never had a credit card because it would be too stressful for me to take out micro-loans for stuff. Still weird that it’s visa/MC money and not your bank’s though.
A credit card the account is with visa, tho it may be managed by your bank thanks to partnerships and bank end integration. Depending on the circumstances you actually will be directed by your bank to contact visa or who ever directly or be forwarded by your bank.
Do you have a source on this? Because it directly contradicts EVERYTHING I have ever experienced. Visa is a payment processor, but more as a middleman. I’ve even been redirected (through automated systems) back to my bank when making a purchase using a Visa card. Any disputes are handled by bank. You can’t get a Visa card without going through a bank. My debit card has a MC logo and can be used as such, but it’s also my ATM card.
Your point about debit vs credit is valid, though possibly more convoluted than needed. On credit, it’s someone else’s money in limbo, until the bill is paid.
That’s a very good point - it isn’t Mastercard or Visa involved in the card protection. Thank you!
So I guess I’m actually saying: if Wemo offer credit, then count me in!
You’ve never used cash?
what protection credit card provide?
In the UK the credit card company are joint liable for any purchases over £100.
So if I buy X from company Y for £100, and company Y fails to deliver, or goes into administration, or whatever, I go back to the credit card company and get my £100 back. Or looked at another way, I don’t pay them the £100 and they swallow the cost.
didn’t know that thanks
Hello, friends in civilized lands, especially those of you who work at financial institutions…
Some of us in the states are excited to watch you do some damage to the entrenched middlemen that have been skimming from all of us for so long. Please do consider letting us sign up for the new stuff. Our money is still worth something, for now!
I agree 100% but also this is like when you watch your brother punch your dad to make him stop hitting your mom, and you know you’re going to get the shit kicked out of both of you later for it.
…unless one of your grabs the crowbar and goes for broke…
Hey blue states…
This is like that son that was sexualy abused by his dad for years, then killed and ate him.
This is like that son that was sexualy abused by his dad for years, then killed and ate him.
Seconded.
i would gladly make the switch if for no other reason than just playing a tiny part in screwing over Visa and MasterCard.
Why? Cause fuck em! That’s why!
Finally someone is doing something about this. I worked in finans and people wouldn’t believe the amount of money that goes to America because we use EMV and whatever the payment transaction system was called.
Isn’t crypto supposed to be a worthless grift tho? \s
Open article, control+f for “crypto”. 0 results.
Is there any way to use wero without handing out my mobile phone number to everyone? I’d prefer handing over IBAN or some alias over phone number.
Wero is basically just SEPA real time transactions under the hood, so you can just use your bank app to transfer via IBAN.
that means it’s almost useless then, because SEPA offers absolutely zero fraud protection. Once you sent the money, it’s impossible to get it back even if you contact the bank 1 second later.
Exception: some hacker did some social engineering and posing as the ministry of defense, persuaded one of the richest men in italy to send him a bribe via SEPA. In that case the banks were able to reverse it one week after. Normal people instead gets only a FUCK YOU.
How to make this competitive vs. current, American owned networks?
Put a microtax in every financial transaction going out of the EU.
Good. The Mastercard and Visa tax never made any sense. We deserve better.
What is GNU Taler?
Love to see it.
Anything that diminishes Visa and MC’s power is probably a good thing.
I wonder how many trillions of dollars the Trump dumpster fire will end up costing American business.
You’d think our corporate overlords would remove him.
I wonder how many trillions of dollars the Trump dumpster fire will end up costing American business.
USAian business does great under fascism. Just look at the MIC. Both “parties” just voted on a massive handout for genocide, etc.
Business will be fine! The right/rich people will be bailed out. Etc.
Only the mega corporations are doing fine. Small businesses are going bust left and right.
Once people lose their jobs and can’t afford to spend, what do you think will happen?
Most of those overlords don‘t care about their business anymore. They want to get the bag now. It‘s how Oligarchies operate. They burn billions to make millions. Or in this case delete trillions to make billions. The goal is have proportionally much more money than us pathetic peasants.
The way Trump operates in particular is unsurprisingly dull. He flips the table and ruins the game for everyone. Then he waits and whoever says some flattering words to him and gives him a hefty bribe is excluded from his bullshit. Suddenly they see their competition crippled while they themselves can do business as usual. That‘s all there is to it. Trump was never the brightest bulb and probably thinks his obvious scheme is brilliant.
At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re working on it. He’s destroying their bottom lines.
That said, if you go after the king, you’d best not miss.
Their bottom lines aren’t very important to their goal of owning everything. Money is just a vehicle for power, but once they own everything and everyone they won’t need it.
The corporate overlords area fucking idiots. They always have been.
24 trillion. the culture war bs with the right is thier best chance of maintain power in the us, so no, they might have accept less to hold on to that power. Or they just stir up the right wing in other countries, alongside with russia.
The parasites are still making money. Rocking the boat would temporarily interrupt the party, they’ll continue to party until they’re forced to change.
I don’t get it, sometimes you wonder if it’s true and he might be acting to help Russia
Sometimes?
The question is incomplete. They will cost trillions, but the presidency, the party fixing elections right now, will cost the country the dollar itself. They will max out borrowing, then print money to pay off the debt and de facto default. They will turn all of those dollars into very much less valuable things.
Presuming no one stops them.
They will max out borrowing, then print money to pay off the debt and de facto default.
I think you wanted to use past tense here.
Oh they will squeeze tens of trillions more out of the federal government before it fails. Every excuse they will borrow.
True risk is also anathema to them, probably hedging bets on how the midterms go before they make big moves
I think it’s simpler than that and just is down to the impact on the next quarter’s profits.
It’s kind of a weird game theory thing, because the industries affected aren’t consistently losing. A decision he makes on Wednesday can help the finance industry but hurt the tech industry, and then he can reverse it on Thursday and now the finance industry is tanking but the insurance industry is up. It’s tough to know who would work together to pull him out of office, because between any two given days, the people who have the money have different opinions on how he’s doing.
They’ll make sure it hurts us, long before it ever touches them.
American big business? Not a dime. It’ll be a bailout on the American tax dollar I bet.
