When I first learned that people were transitioning their gender, I was very much “live and let live,” but took exception at having to call people their preferred pronoun. It seemed like a rigged game to me, like they wanted you to guess at what their gender is, and if you got it wrong, you’re a bigot.
Then my wife was like “what harm does it do to call them what they prefer?”
And I thought about all the hurtful names people teased me with at school, and how I wished they would’ve just called me by my name.
So I said “OK,” and that was that. It hasn’t been as hard as I thought to recognize what people wish to be called. Unless you’re dealing with a “they/them,” then they gotta tell you. Or if you’re dealing with a butch lesbian that dresses boy-ish. On those occasions, I just try not to use any pronouns or talk to them extensively for fear of messing up.
Don’t have fear. As long as you try and are respectful, it’s fine. Even though awareness about this is much better than maybe 20 years ago, a lot of people are still not used to it and are missing the necessary personal experience. Of course they might have difficulties adjusting. But as long as they are polite and try to improve, trans people can be expected to deal with it. Those who immediately call you a bigot are entitled assholes, imo.
It’s a fair common ground: you respect the identity of the trans person, and the trans person forgives you innocent mistakes.
like they wanted you to guess at what their gender is, and if you got it wrong, you’re a bigot.
FWIW, for anyone else who has these sorts of thoughts, most people trans/nonbinary people I’ve met don’t tend to get particularly hung up on it if you guess wrong.
They live in the same world you do, they own mirrors, they know how they look, and in a lot of cases they probably spend a whole lot more time agonizing over how they look than anyone else because they’re worrying about whether or not they can pass.
Just take your best guess and if they or someone else corrects you, just apologize and try to do better. You’re probably gonna fuck up, you have a lifetime of indoctrination in the gender binary to unlearn. It happens. I have a friend who’s been dating a nonbinary person for years and occasionally still messes up and uses the wrong pronouns, it happens. The femboy wearing a skirt probably isn’t gonna be offended no matter what pronouns you use for them. The butch lesbian with a buzz cut has probably already been mistaken for a guy 7 times today, it’s nothing new. Trans and non-binary people have probably spent most of their life using pronouns they don’t like, and sure they’d prefer you use the right ones, but it’s nothing new to them.
If you’re unsure when you meet someone and they don’t broach the subject off the bat, go ahead and spell out your own pronouns so they can feel safe to do the same.
Or just stick to they/them. It’s a little awkward sometimes, it takes some getting used to, but the only people I’ve ever seen get offended by it are bigots who I don’t mind offending anyway.
Sure, there’s some subset of the community that gets really huffy about it, and those people are just garden variety assholes who happen to be trans/nonbinary. They’re basically the same as the cis Karen type who for some reason gets a stick up her ass about not wanting to be called “ma’am,” or the guy who insists on correcting you that it’s “Doctor such-and-such” if you dare to refer to him as “mister.” It doesn’t mean you should go ahead and ignore their preference, but don’t put too much stock in their opinions either.
I’ve felt like this. You already call people the name they asked you to call them, it’s like 3 extra brain cells work to just call them what they ask, way too much effort to mess with them or cause animosity.
While transitioning I’m sure they understand there will be genuine mixups.
My kids started saying “it’s not that deep” and seems to really fit here.
I just don’t use pronouns if I’m not sure, because I’ve never seen anger on the level of someone whom I’ve inadvertently misgendered, and it doesn’t seem to cross people’s minds that maybe I’m not a mind reader.
Gender neutral language is just best overall in this scenario.
Assuming this means avoiding gendered pronouns, I agree.
In a vacuum, theoretically, our language would simply be easier without gendered pronouns. But it would be idealistic for me to therefore assert everyone should just always use neutral pronouns and be alright with that. I know some people who intentionally signal their gender feel invalidated by neutral language, so it would be insensitive and pointless for me to disrespect their preference.
In all the societies I’m in, my approach is to default to neutral unless/until someone specifies preferred pronouns or clearly indicates their gender. I haven’t had anyone, progressive nor reactionary, object to this behavior.
Yeah I really try to be inclusive but I’m with you here, that shit is whack. You’re not a fucking bionicle. We’re all trying our best to be nice to you and your new identity, but if you ask me to call you a fairy, I’m going to laugh in your face. I’ll feel bad about it later, probably, but I will do a spit-take in the moment.
When I first learned that people were transitioning their gender, I was very much “live and let live,” but took exception at having to call people their preferred pronoun. It seemed like a rigged game to me, like they wanted you to guess at what their gender is, and if you got it wrong, you’re a bigot.
Then my wife was like “what harm does it do to call them what they prefer?”
And I thought about all the hurtful names people teased me with at school, and how I wished they would’ve just called me by my name.
So I said “OK,” and that was that. It hasn’t been as hard as I thought to recognize what people wish to be called. Unless you’re dealing with a “they/them,” then they gotta tell you. Or if you’re dealing with a butch lesbian that dresses boy-ish. On those occasions, I just try not to use any pronouns or talk to them extensively for fear of messing up.
Don’t have fear. As long as you try and are respectful, it’s fine. Even though awareness about this is much better than maybe 20 years ago, a lot of people are still not used to it and are missing the necessary personal experience. Of course they might have difficulties adjusting. But as long as they are polite and try to improve, trans people can be expected to deal with it. Those who immediately call you a bigot are entitled assholes, imo.
It’s a fair common ground: you respect the identity of the trans person, and the trans person forgives you innocent mistakes.
FWIW, for anyone else who has these sorts of thoughts, most people trans/nonbinary people I’ve met don’t tend to get particularly hung up on it if you guess wrong.
They live in the same world you do, they own mirrors, they know how they look, and in a lot of cases they probably spend a whole lot more time agonizing over how they look than anyone else because they’re worrying about whether or not they can pass.
Just take your best guess and if they or someone else corrects you, just apologize and try to do better. You’re probably gonna fuck up, you have a lifetime of indoctrination in the gender binary to unlearn. It happens. I have a friend who’s been dating a nonbinary person for years and occasionally still messes up and uses the wrong pronouns, it happens. The femboy wearing a skirt probably isn’t gonna be offended no matter what pronouns you use for them. The butch lesbian with a buzz cut has probably already been mistaken for a guy 7 times today, it’s nothing new. Trans and non-binary people have probably spent most of their life using pronouns they don’t like, and sure they’d prefer you use the right ones, but it’s nothing new to them.
If you’re unsure when you meet someone and they don’t broach the subject off the bat, go ahead and spell out your own pronouns so they can feel safe to do the same.
Or just stick to they/them. It’s a little awkward sometimes, it takes some getting used to, but the only people I’ve ever seen get offended by it are bigots who I don’t mind offending anyway.
Sure, there’s some subset of the community that gets really huffy about it, and those people are just garden variety assholes who happen to be trans/nonbinary. They’re basically the same as the cis Karen type who for some reason gets a stick up her ass about not wanting to be called “ma’am,” or the guy who insists on correcting you that it’s “Doctor such-and-such” if you dare to refer to him as “mister.” It doesn’t mean you should go ahead and ignore their preference, but don’t put too much stock in their opinions either.
I’ve felt like this. You already call people the name they asked you to call them, it’s like 3 extra brain cells work to just call them what they ask, way too much effort to mess with them or cause animosity.
While transitioning I’m sure they understand there will be genuine mixups.
My kids started saying “it’s not that deep” and seems to really fit here.
I just don’t use pronouns if I’m not sure, because I’ve never seen anger on the level of someone whom I’ve inadvertently misgendered, and it doesn’t seem to cross people’s minds that maybe I’m not a mind reader.
Gender neutral language is just best overall in this scenario.
Assuming this means avoiding gendered pronouns, I agree.
In a vacuum, theoretically, our language would simply be easier without gendered pronouns. But it would be idealistic for me to therefore assert everyone should just always use neutral pronouns and be alright with that. I know some people who intentionally signal their gender feel invalidated by neutral language, so it would be insensitive and pointless for me to disrespect their preference.
In all the societies I’m in, my approach is to default to neutral unless/until someone specifies preferred pronouns or clearly indicates their gender. I haven’t had anyone, progressive nor reactionary, object to this behavior.
Check these fields on a common job application form. Top row? Fine. The rest? I’m not taking that person seriously.
“I’m a special little elf and I insist you address me as such.”
At this point it gets so specific that I don’t get how it is different to a name.
I’m already bad at remembering names so that is just another layer.
I wish just for one that you can use on anybody and it is right.
Yeah I really try to be inclusive but I’m with you here, that shit is whack. You’re not a fucking bionicle. We’re all trying our best to be nice to you and your new identity, but if you ask me to call you a fairy, I’m going to laugh in your face. I’ll feel bad about it later, probably, but I will do a spit-take in the moment.
Calling it now: The top three stick and the rest will be laughed about it 20 years, if not 10.