Those “fancy steps” are the only things that would make this legal. Without them, all he’s doing is violating the Constitution. DC presents a unique loophole for this. Anywhere else, and he’s breaking the law.
I’ve said time and time again we let the entire Bush admin off the hook for war crimes… Trump hasn’t even hit war crimes levels yet. Did anyone think we were ever going to hold him to account when we wouldn’t even do anything about that?
He committed was crimes in his first term. Ordering an assassination of an islamism general using a diplomatic meeting to lure him out… Is very explicitly a war crime.
I don’t disagree, I guess I just felt like Bush’s war crimes of torture within our own military was pretty directly egregious whereas the whole point of Iran-Contra was that the Contras were the ones committing the violence, not US soldiers at the command of their leadership. Plausible deniability and all that. Like, if our society was ever going to give a shit, that should be have been the straw that broke the camels back since there was nothing plausibly deniable about “enhanced interrogation.”
There are so many people who were radicalized by 9/11, that then went on to give Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. carte blanche to do horrific things to people.
The law does matter. People don’t seem to realize just how much of Trump’s bullshit has already been stopped by the courts.
The majority of his executive orders have all been blocked or straight-up nullified, so far…but thanks to the overwhelming volume of court cases and the long delays in reaching some decisions…the media never covers the outcomes to the same extent.
they get their information from the news and social media. both of which are
A > Sensationalised,
B > Partisan , and
C > Incredibly full of shit and misinformation
Exactly, he is escalating bc he is feeling pressure. He is getting worried about the midterms. That is not to say that the law will surely prevail in the end, but just to point out that he wouldn’t even be bothering to test the waters with threats of “maybe your city is next” if he didn’t believe he would see pushback.
He’s already sent and recalled much of the military in L.A., so what tf is he even talking about? Floating the idea of sending them again only to then recall them again?
D.C. has gained autonomy as a city, but keep in mind it was already unique compared to Chicago, LA, and NY bc it’s already a federal district. When he called for a “federal takeover” a few days ago, he meant stripping the city of its autonomy in terms of taking the power from the mayor.
When he tried to take LA the first time, he experienced pushback from both city and state governments. Military morale was reportedly extremely low, he made them sleep on the floor bc he didn’t really have any kind of a plan other than a show of force. In the end, he basically succeeded in a public show of wasting money and resources for absolutely nothing.
Now what? He’s going to send in the troops again? Surely they’ll get the job done the second time around.
If the law was perfect or if the law even worked as intended, he would have been in prison a long time ago.
If the law didn’t matter at all, he wouldn’t bother making threats and testing the waters. The military never would have been recalled from LA the first time around. The FBI would have already arrested the TX Democrats in Chicago, and TX Republicans would have just gone ahead with the redistricting without a second thought (which even I’m pretty surprised that they didn’t).
Will the law alone prevail and save us in the end? Not likely, but there is a difference between being naive and not allowing yourself to panic and be backed into a corner of black and white thinking. In many ways, doing so is accepting defeat.
Being smart and strategizing means using the law and along with everything else to your advantage while you still can. Trump has been bulldozing through law bc his goal is to betray his own country. Democrats in TX are breaking the law, but they’re doing it strategically to save their country. They’re aligning themselves with Democrats in other states, and uniting as Americans. That’s what we all should be doing.
No you’re right, I’m the useful idiot for not buying what’s being sold to me by a reality TV star. Now is definitely not the time for alliances against a traitorous coup.
Might as well give up and accept it’s over. No point in fighting to hold on to what’s left. Every man for himself. It’s total anarchy.
“Put them through trauma.” Either it took you less than 8 months to break, or you’re fully aware of your usefulness.
Oh okay please explain how the law works I’m sure youre a lawyer or a judge or some other type of legal expert. We’re all dying to hear how our president isn’t guilty of literally dozens and possibly hundreds of serious financial and sexual crimes dating back to the 1980s, or how he is guilty and the fact that he hasn’t been punished is just “how the law works”
You still need to present evidence, in court, before you can throw someone in (or under) prison. Or do you think Trump is right by arguing that he shouldn’t have to follow due process against HIS targets? The law should be equally applied to everyone…so, if you think it’s ok to simply ignore the process for him, then anyone can simply ignore the process for others.
I’m not saying the system is perfect. There’s no such thing as a perfect system. But throwing away the entire concept of due process, just because rich people have the advantage of hiring better lawyers, is not the answer.
There are definitely ways to reform the system to make it more equitable…but skipping the parts where evidence is required for a conviction, or closing all possibilities for appeals? No. All that does is give people like Trump the perfect weapon to use against their enemies. None of us are safe, if we abandon those foundational principles.
whenever an EO gets challenged or struck down, Trump figures out a way to get rid of the problem or go around it. the only thing the law is doing is showing him vulnerabilities to exploit. state injunctions are legally being ignored thanks to SCOTUS, so… Trump does not have to listen to judges.
No one is “letting him”. There are dozens of active cases against him and his administration, right now. The process takes time, and the media never covers it adequately…but the system is still working.
If the system were working Cannon could not have effectively blocked Trump’s prosecution.
If the system were working the leader of an insurrection against the government of the United States could not have even RUN for President, much less BEEN SWORN IN.
If the system were working the personal attorney for the most vile and morally corrupt President in our nation’s history would not have been NONINATED, much less CONFIRMED to a federal appellate court.
THE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING. Any conclusions predicated on another other assumption are simply wrong.
So…do you agree with Trump when he tries to suspend or ignore the legal process? Is that your solution? Just, “as long as it’s us doing it, it’s fine”?
It’s kind of bizarre to advocate for the very same shit he’s pulling, as a defense against the kind of shit he keeps trying to pull.
you’re right that the system is working. it is giving us its ultimate: fascism. this is the intended outcome for profit seeking capitalists. if you mean to say our system of American justice is working… surely you jest.
Dude. That’s literally the same argument Trump was using for why he should be allowed to just deport people without due process. This is not the “solution” you think it is.
No, I’m saying that the basic principles of law and justice shouldn’t be abandoned just because there are people in the world who try and game the system.
It seems like everyone these days, agrees with Trump’s vision of what the law should look like. My side gets a pass…and everyone I think is “bad”, gets their rights taken away. People just seem to disagree about who should be punished without due process.
It’s not a “moral high ground” issue. It’s basic common sense. You want a legal system that’s based on facts? You want people’s rights to be respected? You can’t have those things, if you throw them all out the window anytime things don’t work out exactly the way you want them to.
Those are the things you have to fight to protect. If every law that got broken, meant the law was pointless…then we would have no laws.
It seems like everyone these days, agrees with Trump’s vision of what the law should look like. My side gets a pass…and everyone I think is “bad”, gets their rights taken away.
This is not what’s happening here. Nobody (on the left) is giving any side a “pass”. What the fuck is this strawman?
I’m talking about selectively assigning who gets their rights protected, and who doesn’t. Who deserves due process, and who doesn’t. The only way any of this can be considered “legitimate” is if it applies to everyone…not just the ones you think “deserve it”.
Russia is in full scale war, and has not formally declared war, but they are operating as if they have.
Trump would do the same, a bunch of different declarations that are in practice, Martial law, but without actually saying it, because Martial law is too obvious of a rubicon.
GOP MAGA is trying to boil the frog, what determines if there will be a revolution or not is if huge parts of the country suddenley believe we’ve crossed the rubicon, the point of no return. And it benefits MAGA for those people to have unique turning points, some will wait until X happens, Some wont take up arms until Y happens, It benefits them to boil the frog slowly, because it allows them to secure their position more and more before a potential confrontation happens
declaring martial law is a clear sign to everyone “Yup, Im declaring the civil war” its too obvious, it doesnt benefit Trump to do that until he thinks he is ready, and at that point he’s already won and will be untouchable.
Those “fancy steps” are the only things that would make this legal. Without them, all he’s doing is violating the Constitution. DC presents a unique loophole for this. Anywhere else, and he’s breaking the law.
Surely this time he’s done for.
Hate to break it to you man but the law does not matter. It really never has for the rich and powerful but he has laid it all bare
I’ve said time and time again we let the entire Bush admin off the hook for war crimes… Trump hasn’t even hit war crimes levels yet. Did anyone think we were ever going to hold him to account when we wouldn’t even do anything about that?
He committed was crimes in his first term. Ordering an assassination of an islamism general using a diplomatic meeting to lure him out… Is very explicitly a war crime.
I think it started sooner, with Nixon being pardoned and all the senior Reagan White House officials getting away with Iran-Contra
Even farther back. The mishandling of Reconstruction of the South after Lincoln’s assassination.
I don’t disagree, I guess I just felt like Bush’s war crimes of torture within our own military was pretty directly egregious whereas the whole point of Iran-Contra was that the Contras were the ones committing the violence, not US soldiers at the command of their leadership. Plausible deniability and all that. Like, if our society was ever going to give a shit, that should be have been the straw that broke the camels back since there was nothing plausibly deniable about “enhanced interrogation.”
There are so many people who were radicalized by 9/11, that then went on to give Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. carte blanche to do horrific things to people.
The law does matter. People don’t seem to realize just how much of Trump’s bullshit has already been stopped by the courts.
The majority of his executive orders have all been blocked or straight-up nullified, so far…but thanks to the overwhelming volume of court cases and the long delays in reaching some decisions…the media never covers the outcomes to the same extent.
they get their information from the news and social media. both of which are A > Sensationalised,
B > Partisan , and C > Incredibly full of shit and misinformation
Exactly, he is escalating bc he is feeling pressure. He is getting worried about the midterms. That is not to say that the law will surely prevail in the end, but just to point out that he wouldn’t even be bothering to test the waters with threats of “maybe your city is next” if he didn’t believe he would see pushback.
He’s already sent and recalled much of the military in L.A., so what tf is he even talking about? Floating the idea of sending them again only to then recall them again?
D.C. has gained autonomy as a city, but keep in mind it was already unique compared to Chicago, LA, and NY bc it’s already a federal district. When he called for a “federal takeover” a few days ago, he meant stripping the city of its autonomy in terms of taking the power from the mayor.
When he tried to take LA the first time, he experienced pushback from both city and state governments. Military morale was reportedly extremely low, he made them sleep on the floor bc he didn’t really have any kind of a plan other than a show of force. In the end, he basically succeeded in a public show of wasting money and resources for absolutely nothing.
Now what? He’s going to send in the troops again? Surely they’ll get the job done the second time around.
Buddy if the law mattered even one fucking iota trump himself would be buried under the prison.
If the law was perfect or if the law even worked as intended, he would have been in prison a long time ago.
If the law didn’t matter at all, he wouldn’t bother making threats and testing the waters. The military never would have been recalled from LA the first time around. The FBI would have already arrested the TX Democrats in Chicago, and TX Republicans would have just gone ahead with the redistricting without a second thought (which even I’m pretty surprised that they didn’t).
Will the law alone prevail and save us in the end? Not likely, but there is a difference between being naive and not allowing yourself to panic and be backed into a corner of black and white thinking. In many ways, doing so is accepting defeat.
Being smart and strategizing means using the law and along with everything else to your advantage while you still can. Trump has been bulldozing through law bc his goal is to betray his own country. Democrats in TX are breaking the law, but they’re doing it strategically to save their country. They’re aligning themselves with Democrats in other states, and uniting as Americans. That’s what we all should be doing.
You are a useful idiot for this admin.
No you’re right, I’m the useful idiot for not buying what’s being sold to me by a reality TV star. Now is definitely not the time for alliances against a traitorous coup.
Might as well give up and accept it’s over. No point in fighting to hold on to what’s left. Every man for himself. It’s total anarchy.
“Put them through trauma.” Either it took you less than 8 months to break, or you’re fully aware of your usefulness.
That’s not how the law works.
Oh okay please explain how the law works I’m sure youre a lawyer or a judge or some other type of legal expert. We’re all dying to hear how our president isn’t guilty of literally dozens and possibly hundreds of serious financial and sexual crimes dating back to the 1980s, or how he is guilty and the fact that he hasn’t been punished is just “how the law works”
Man I hate lemmoids
You still need to present evidence, in court, before you can throw someone in (or under) prison. Or do you think Trump is right by arguing that he shouldn’t have to follow due process against HIS targets? The law should be equally applied to everyone…so, if you think it’s ok to simply ignore the process for him, then anyone can simply ignore the process for others.
Guilt by decree is not “justice”.
He’s a fucking convicted felon.
If anyone else was a 34 time convicted felon they would be spending life without parole in jail.
But do go on about how the law is definitely working, and does affect the rich.
I’m not saying the system is perfect. There’s no such thing as a perfect system. But throwing away the entire concept of due process, just because rich people have the advantage of hiring better lawyers, is not the answer.
There are definitely ways to reform the system to make it more equitable…but skipping the parts where evidence is required for a conviction, or closing all possibilities for appeals? No. All that does is give people like Trump the perfect weapon to use against their enemies. None of us are safe, if we abandon those foundational principles.
He would be dead shortly after being locked up because he wouldn’t survive withdrawal from his fast food and orange makeup addiction.
Also amphetamines
whenever an EO gets challenged or struck down, Trump figures out a way to get rid of the problem or go around it. the only thing the law is doing is showing him vulnerabilities to exploit. state injunctions are legally being ignored thanks to SCOTUS, so… Trump does not have to listen to judges.
He’s breaking the law all over the US, when you’re rich… they let you. This is no different. Let’s see some consequences somewhere.
No one is “letting him”. There are dozens of active cases against him and his administration, right now. The process takes time, and the media never covers it adequately…but the system is still working.
If the system were working Cannon could not have effectively blocked Trump’s prosecution. If the system were working the leader of an insurrection against the government of the United States could not have even RUN for President, much less BEEN SWORN IN. If the system were working the personal attorney for the most vile and morally corrupt President in our nation’s history would not have been NONINATED, much less CONFIRMED to a federal appellate court.
THE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING. Any conclusions predicated on another other assumption are simply wrong.
This is why we’re doomed. I cannot believe there are people who still think like this
He won’t realize until they come for him. People like him are how it happens
isn’t it disgusting? depressing as hell how these people still feel so confident in “the system.”
So…do you agree with Trump when he tries to suspend or ignore the legal process? Is that your solution? Just, “as long as it’s us doing it, it’s fine”?
It’s kind of bizarre to advocate for the very same shit he’s pulling, as a defense against the kind of shit he keeps trying to pull.
Remember this exchange.
you’re right that the system is working. it is giving us its ultimate: fascism. this is the intended outcome for profit seeking capitalists. if you mean to say our system of American justice is working… surely you jest.
That’s entirely the point. Legal channels are too show to counteract everything at once. See Bannon’s “stress test”.
Dude. That’s literally the same argument Trump was using for why he should be allowed to just deport people without due process. This is not the “solution” you think it is.
So you’re saying we should “go high”… How has that been working out thus far?
No, I’m saying that the basic principles of law and justice shouldn’t be abandoned just because there are people in the world who try and game the system.
It seems like everyone these days, agrees with Trump’s vision of what the law should look like. My side gets a pass…and everyone I think is “bad”, gets their rights taken away. People just seem to disagree about who should be punished without due process.
It’s not a “moral high ground” issue. It’s basic common sense. You want a legal system that’s based on facts? You want people’s rights to be respected? You can’t have those things, if you throw them all out the window anytime things don’t work out exactly the way you want them to.
Those are the things you have to fight to protect. If every law that got broken, meant the law was pointless…then we would have no laws.
This is not what’s happening here. Nobody (on the left) is giving any side a “pass”. What the fuck is this strawman?
I’m talking about selectively assigning who gets their rights protected, and who doesn’t. Who deserves due process, and who doesn’t. The only way any of this can be considered “legitimate” is if it applies to everyone…not just the ones you think “deserve it”.
SCOTUS:
It doesn’t fucking matter. He’ll do it all anyway, without ever declaring martial law. And what the fuck is anyone going to do about it?
Martial Law is too obvious.
Russia is in full scale war, and has not formally declared war, but they are operating as if they have. Trump would do the same, a bunch of different declarations that are in practice, Martial law, but without actually saying it, because Martial law is too obvious of a rubicon.
GOP MAGA is trying to boil the frog, what determines if there will be a revolution or not is if huge parts of the country suddenley believe we’ve crossed the rubicon, the point of no return. And it benefits MAGA for those people to have unique turning points, some will wait until X happens, Some wont take up arms until Y happens, It benefits them to boil the frog slowly, because it allows them to secure their position more and more before a potential confrontation happens
declaring martial law is a clear sign to everyone “Yup, Im declaring the civil war” its too obvious, it doesnt benefit Trump to do that until he thinks he is ready, and at that point he’s already won and will be untouchable.
Law means nothing unless there’s some means to enforce it
It means even less, if your first impulse is to toss it all out the window as soon as it’s no longer convenient for you to follow it.
And the consequences of him breaking the law will be…? He’ll get arrested and prosecuted like a civilian?