Thanks for including the mirror, OP.
Companies that obtain mobile phone location data generally do it in two different ways. The first is through software development kits (SDKs) embedded in ordinary smartphone apps, like games or weather forecasters. These SDKs continuously gather a user’s granular location, transfer that to the data broker, and then sell that data onward or repackage it and sell access to government agencies.
The second is through real-time bidding (RTB). When an advert is about to be served to a mobile phone user, there is a near instantaneous, and invisible, bidding process in which different companies vie to have their advert placed in front of certain demographics. A side-effect is that this demographic data, including mobile phones’ location, can be harvested by surveillance firms. Sometimes spy companies buy ad tech companies out right to insert themselves into this data supply chain. We previously found at least thousands of apps were hijacked to provide location data in this way.
I really despise these practices. I don’t know how people can build these tools with a clear conscience.
That’s easy. You just ignore your conscience because money speaks louder to these people.
Or you use confirmation bias to tell yourself it’s an innocuous use case that won’t hurt anyone.
Or you use a bandwagon argument like “everybody else is doing it, so why can’t we” or “everybody else is doing it so it doesn’t make much difference if we do too”
Or you use a library for ads such as the google-ads-api npm package, without checking it, so you don’t realise how much data it’s collecting on your users…
Or even worse, “if we don’t it, someone else will anyway”
The Peter Thiel Paradox (also the name of my new wave band) “It’s inevitable/you’re only fighting progress, and any regulations will turn it into an authoritarian nightmare. Which is what it’s turning into anyway because it’s simply inevitable. So stop trying to resist by forcing regulations on this inevitable authoritarian nightmare that we had no way of stopping.”
Jesus fucking Christ. Time to delete the two games I’ve ever downloaded. Dunno if that even helps at this point.
It’s not specific to games, it’s all apps that have ads
I should have just went back to the flip phone like ten years ago.
I switched to /e/ a while ago, they have a feature called advanced privacy. commercial Lemmy clients like Connect and Raccoon have trackers embedded and are blocked automagically. ^I use Jerboa btw^
You can instead use apps which block trackers. I can recommend 3.
Netguard with tracker filters enabled, PersonalDNS filter – a fire and forget DNS filter app, or Adguard android app from Adguard website.
The 1st one needs payment to access some pro features but can also block internet connection to all your apps.
The 2nd one is a simple DNS blocker which can have millions of rules and won’t choke under the load.
The last one is not Foss or available on fdroid like the 1st two are, but is much more powerful than the 1st two combined.
Pick your tools and limit information now.
I don’t know how people can build these tools with a clear conscience.
Have you seen the job market for programmers lately? It feels like it’s almost all for AI slop, abusive rentier middleman business models that add no real value,
defensewar contractors, or all of the above at once.That’s not to say that it’s acceptable for people to work those jobs with a clear conscience; it’s to say that for a bunch of people the only ethical options would be to remain unemployed or leave the industry.
I’ve been seeing exactly that. Reading through these job descriptions is a bit depressing. I can’t virtue signal my lack of morality and unthinking subservience to my potential employer hard enough to make cutoff to become “Director of AI Shilling” or a “Dark Pattern Consent Violation Engineer”.
I know the kind of environments that won’t work for me. This will always limit the jobs I can and can’t work and I’m generally okay with that. I would love some of that bountiful defence contractor money, but I can’t ethically justify doing work that harms others or limits their freedom. Advertising tech would have been a good fit for me… if I had no sense of ethics.
It’s a tough realization that my gaming consoles, GPS Smart Watch, and fancy modern over-engineered car only became possible because tons of money was poured into building out related tech for defence and surveillance.
I imagine the cognitive dissonance must be really strong in someone working for some of these companies that have monetized governmentally sanctioned or corporately opportunistic civil rights abuses. Then again, we’re often kept apart, working in our own little areas where we’re safe from having to see the whole horrifying machine.
It’s the same for anyone who works for Meta or MS or Google or Anduril or whatever these days: you look at your comp package that’s worth roughly half a million annually, and you say
They have been paying people to not have morals for quite a while now.
build these tools with a clear conscience.
Because if they don’t their masters they will become destitute and starve while homeless
And all social interaction happen at veiled gunpoint
Under these conditions it is no surprise at all that conscience plays no role whatsoever, it is just a savage free-for-all for survival happening under our cursed star, an insane 10 billion years long churning of thinking meat, consciousness behind birthed into the wreckage, screaming uncomprehendingly at what is happened until it soon it is just as easily, mercifully and meaninglessly snuffed out again.
Fortunately we have a shot at scorching the surface of this planet thanks to global warming and really the question is, can we make it happen before we genocide ourselves, leaving this planet’s biosphere still capable of sustaining the horrors of life ?
You should really talk to some real in-the-flesh people.
I met some real people this week, they were watching advertising.
They thought the government cared about them.
One wanted to upgrade their car to add another 100 horsepower they cannot use anywhere.
Another told me, he does not like raising cows but he had to get more cows to make it more economical to raise cows.
They were all bummed out that the end of the end of the week was upon us, and soon they would have to work 40 hours in the next 5 days, doing things they stopped liking doing a long time again, if they ever did at all.
A proper Linux phone cannot come soon enough
As much as I would love to have a Linux phone, it will not fully help with privacy. The devices are logged into a cell tower and have a unique ID. This alone makes them trackable.
A removable physical or electronic SIM on a system that has full control of inbound or outbound traffic (linux phone) would still be a whole lot better than nothing. Imagine having a switch to reliably sever any heartbeat signals between the tower and the device at any time.
This would be a flight mode switch that reliably works. But it also means you are offline, which is no solution to the average “daily” problem of being tracked.
Yup, the baseband modem does what it’s firmware tells it to, and that’s entirely independent from the phone’s software. And open baseband modems to my knowledge don’t exist.
If the spyware/tracking started and ended at the cell tower it would be a good start. I’m not sure the sensor data would be sent to the tower either. It would just be a general area.
I wish smartphones only tracked and sent data about your location. They gather every personal information you could and could not imagine about you. They analyze what you click like on socia media and all your circle of friends.
A Linux phone could theoretically use other networks. You could pipe traffic through I2P or bounce it around multiple network types with reticulum. It’s actually theoretically possible to make a community mesh that doesn’t need cellular at all. I don’t NEED to carry the entire internet with me everywhere. I can carry a device with a cache of stuff I need but for everything else I can just connect to some sort of network to fetch it when I actually need it on demand.
A Linux phone would let you do that. You can explore that possibility. Android and IPhone will never allow that because latency is shot on the alternative networks and they aren’t expensive enough to make a profit off of.
The pinephone released years ago. Flip phones with removable batteries have existed for decades. At this point its on you.
What carrier do you use with a pinephone?
Bro…my weather app is selling my data? 😦
I just wanted up-to-date travel conditions in a convenient widget. My taxes already pay for the meteorology, why do they need to sell my data too??
Because greed.
And useful idiots like /u/alaknar.
Show me one weather app that’s state-sponsored (therefore: paid by taxes) that sells data to boost income.
Nearly every weather app that exists is repackaging data from an official, tax funded source. Apps using weather underground data possibly being the only exception.
Show me one that doesn’t want location permissions and such. So now they’ve got Your data and can do as they please with it.
To be fair, a weather app does need to know my location to give relevant information.
No it doesn’t.
It just needs to know what cities you care about.
Absolutely. Just don’t do anything shady with that information. I think that’s all anyone’s asking.
Nearly every weather app that exists is repackaging data from an official, tax funded source
The weather source. Not the application source. A dude needs to sit down and write that part.
Sure, and it would be cool if that dude didn’t pass my personal information to a third party.
Not affiliated, just discovered this amazing app relatively recently.
I think the last time I tried a bunch, it came down to Breezy and Cirrus. I think they’re pretty similar but I settled on Cirrus for whatever reason. Here’s a link for anyone interested.
Aaaand we circle back to THIS.
You’re having an argument with a voice in your head or something. I’m just going to tag you and go about my morning. Good luck with whatever it is you’re dealing with.
My taxes already pay for the meteorology
Yeah, but it got privatized, so now you need to pay more money to a 3rd party to access the services you are already paying money to access.
And pay a 4th party to go around removing you from data broker lists, is the expectation
Yeah. That’s an exercise in futility. You can’t get that data back under wraps. The only solution is to obfuscate your data with noise.
Plenty of FOSS weather apps out there that don’t sell your data. I like Breezy Weather
If you want the weather info sponsored by your taxes, use the browser.
If you want a convenient widget, someone needs to make it, and the developer who made that widget needs to eat too.
You can either buy an app or pay with your data.
You can either buy an app or pay with your data.
No this implies you get a choice, which you don’t. You can get it for free and sell your data, or you can pay for it…and still also sell your data. The real money is in the data, they won’t give that up…ever.
Can you use an open source weather app, or is the problem deeper than that?
Many phones come with a weather app you can neither uninstall nor disable.
you can deny location position to your weather app. show the weather for cities you are interested in. Get weather by notifications for “seemlessness”
Yeah, I was just curious if the app could harvest it anyway via the SDK or something.
the weather app can’t. Your cell provider can without any phone permissions. Google/Apple secretly could as well. These companies love your government more than they love you.
They just love whoever pays the most. And they cheat on everyone while getting paychecks from all directions.
I’m not the person who posted the widget issue, but IME many FOSS solutions (not just weather-related) are more often than not aesthetically/UX crap.
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Yeah, that’s true. Often people will take the money from users AND from selling data. But you can (usually) verify if that’s the case by checking the app’s permissions required.
The point stands, however: you either pay for the software with money, or with data - with the only exception being the unusually rare FOSS project here and there, which either lives in relative obscurity or grows to become large enough for the creators to either start requiring money, or just fold under the load…
and the developer who made that widget needs to eat too.
He can eat without selling people’s data.
This isn’t about putting food on the table and you’re a dipshit if you believe otherwise.
He can eat without selling people’s data.
Yes. By making your app paid, not free. 90% of Apple Store/Google Play store users don’t want to pay for apps with their money.
This isn’t about putting food on the table and you’re a dipshit if you believe otherwise.
You’re childishly naive if you think it’s malice 100% of the way top to bottom.
Yes. By making your app paid, not free. 90% of Apple Store/Google Play store users don’t want to pay for apps with their money.
No, by doing something else with his life because developing an app is not an all-encompassing behavior.
You’re childishly naive if you think it’s malice 100% of the way top to bottom.
No, I’m just not a useful idiot going to bat for people making money off of me.
I, personally, have made significantly more complicated apps than what you’re defending and I don’t charge money for it or harvest my user’s data. I’m also not alone.
If we can do it, why can’t this scumbag? Oh yeah, because he has useful idiots like you going to bat for him.
Please, tell me more about how ignorant and innocent you are. It’s cute and predictable.
No, by doing something else with his life because developing an app is not an all-encompassing behavior.
Buddy, are you suggesting that software developers should “do something else to earn money”?
Are you high right now?
No, I’m just not a useful idiot going to bat for people making money off of me.
Go ahead. Quote the bit where anyone in this thread is batting for anybody.
I, personally, have made significantly more complicated apps than what you’re defending
I’m becoming fairly certain that you are high. What exactly am I defending…?
If we can do it, why can’t this scumbag?
We can’t have a discussion if you don’t understand some simple facts of life. Such as: “people need to eat”, or “eating costs money”, or “not everybody has the privilege of being a software developer as a side-gig”, or “not everybody wants or can be a farmer”.
Please, tell me more about how ignorant and innocent you are. It’s cute and predictable.
Get sober, then read what you wrote again.
Selling an app for a buck is profitable, if a good app.
Yeah, morons like you will fight tooth and nail to avoid admitting you’re being taken for a ride.
It’s in your blood and I don’t expect more.
Keep being stupid.
You’re desperately trying to spit on me, but forgetting we’re both behind computer screens. Get sober. Don’t spit on your computer.
If my taxes can pay to develop a website, they can pay to develop a widget.
Then talk to your government, get them to make the app, not just the website. Go you!
Thank you! This was what I was hoping someone would suggest.
If the government had a right to that data they wouldn’t need to pay for it, they could just subpoena it. But they don’t, so instead they’re paying middle men to circumvent our rights.
Yup. Look up tow truck companies, they track license plates with their readers and lease the data to police since police can’t track without a warrant.
This reminds me of something… What was it… Hmm…
And that was before the NSA leaks.
And in case it wasn’t already clear enough how absurd this all is, the creeps at Palantir are now actually so brazen as to officially call one of their mass surveillance systems “Project Gotham”…brave new world.
I guess calling it “Project Barad Dur” was a bit too on the nose after they named themselves Palantir.
Yes, maybe a bit much, but it would have been very fitting, since the marketing is obviously aimed specifically at the villains of the world—perhaps for the next project.
It’s quite telling of the times we live in that you can make it so obvious these days. You’d think that at least some concealment of the intentions behind these mass surveillance products would be appropriate, but I guess with people like Trump in the White House, Putin in the Kremlin, Netanyahu in Israel, and many others of that caliber, it’s no longer necessary.
They’re openly mocking us being dumbfounded and complacent.
Trump’s executive order just made anyone who is critical of his administrations criminal conduct a terrorist by royal decree. We all should be armed and prepared to defend ourselves and our families against tyranny. They’re “disappearing” people without accountability. The pedo king literally declared war on citizens for not conforming to his dictatorship. The military was instructed to commit war crimes against American citizens yesterday. ie:raping and pillaging. Am I misreading the situation?
Nope.
He should be tried and executed for treason, but those in leadership positions in our country have betrayed their oaths. That means we all need to be armed to the fucking teeth as soon as possible.
Is it me or are these ice goons getting fatter everyday? Are they eating the immigrants?
Meal Team 6, Fatstapo, etc.
This appears to suggest that smartphone makers (Apple, Google, etc.) are violating privacy agreements and selling user’s private data. Has anyone read their privacy agreements lately?
Not just phone makers, but the telecom companies. Even if your phone shares no location data, it still checks in with a cell tower constantly. As you move around, so does your registration at a tower. It’s accurate to about 2 miles. Match that with your known home address or work address and your location is easily guessed
They don’t need the cooperation of telecom providers. They receive the same signal you send to the cell tower. Even if the signal is encrypted so they can’t see what you are sending, they can identify that you are sending.
With enough receivers listening, they can identify your location to a pretty high accuracy.
Anything that polls location data can record it and sell it, probably more apps that sell it than don’t.
Yup. There are dozens of these contractors in our modern surveillance state, and it’s all bought up en masse by the government (and others!) for all sorts of purposes.
Here’s a pretty good book on the subject
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/706321/means-of-control-by-byron-tau/
Everyone knows Apple said they would never do that and that one time defied the FBI about it. Are you saying Tim Cook would just lie let a false impression stand ?
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Privacy policies are irrelevant here. They are picking up unique data as your phone communicates with a cell tower. You can do it with a $15 RTL-SDR receiver.
Get a hundred receivers and you can pinpoint anybody in a city.
So they will know where I have been? Even though I am not American… I remember when the British government demanded that Apple give them that kind of information on all iPhone users all over the world and Apple told them to go fuck themselves.
This is some real bullshit.
https://techcrunch.com/2025/10/01/uk-government-tries-again-to-access-encrypted-apple-customer-data-report/ they don’t know when to quit
Because they will never quit. Ever. We need to get lucky and stop them every time (and I feel powerless beyond signing some petition online and maybe making a donation), but they need to get lucky once.
And I cannot recall a single time that such laws were ever repealed. The patriot act has had some questionable efficacy and now ICE and the Trump administration want so many more additions that there is just no going back.
Even in Canada, which never had an issue with terrorism, has passed many laws heavily infringing on people’s freedoms and are trying to pass the biggest one yet with Bill C-2, even though it actually weakens border protections and gives American companies far, far more ability to surveil Canadians than ever before. This is when violence and terror threats have been greatly diminishing for years (and not because of some BS laws).
Because they are planning for if people rise up to fight back. It’s not about protecting you. It’s about protecting them.
They already have it
Looking forward to joining you guys in the upcoming rebellion.
But I am le tired
Ok take a nap…
But then fire ze missiles!
Yeah, doing everything they can to make “land of the free” whiter.
Land of the melanin free
Ever wondered what it would have been like if the gestapo had real-time awareness of every citizen’s location at all times? You’re about to find out.
This will not help sale of smartphones.
This will not affect sale of smartphones.
FTFY
Exactly. 99.9999% of consumers don’t give a fuck as long as they can still access Facebook and TikTok.
It will not hinder it either. People will give up many things before their smartphones.
I wish I could but feels like every job requires me to have some sort of app
I work in telecom, so no win there unless my family is ready to be homeless.
Are they paying for your phone? Are they giving a stipend for your service? Then tell them to fuck off and give you a yubikey.
In Colorado they are legally required to pay me a certain amount for my phone
Just need to financially cripple investment into companies like this. Go out of your way to march with your wallet to get impacts into their profitability.
But spying on former chancellor angela merkel is not? https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us-spy-agency-tapped-german-chancellery-for-decades-wikileaks-idUSKCN0PI2AD/ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57302806
Or maybe it’s all bad.
Most Americans I know were upset with both.
