I have neither time, resources nor know-how to like go all out on data privacy. But I try doing things like using Proton for Mail, browsing with DuckDuckGo or Ecosia, messaging on Signal instead of WhatsApp, etc.
But I’m having a hard time responding to people who say “why do you do that, it’s completely pointless since companies like Google have all of our data anyways unless we go all out, and nobody has time for all the effort that takes”.
“Privacy is dead” only once you lose all legal rights to your own information. It may be “already out there”, but at least you still have some legal recourse for when your information is being used by a 3rd party, without your consent. (or at least it should)
No one should have the right to just clone your identity, or make AI images in your likeness, or even sell your confidential information to advertisers, against your wishes. If there aren’t laws already protecting your rights in that regard, where you live…there should be.
You can achieve privacy by not doing things online. People used to understand that if you wanted something to remain private, you literally kept it to yourself, idk what happened. Hence my radical proposal: If you have things you wish to remain private, don’t transmit those things into the largest public and most surveilled space that has ever existed, the Internet. We used to say to each other: “Don’t put anything online or type anything into a browser that you wouldn’t want to see on the frontpage of your hometown paper with your name on it.” You can’t walk into the public town square of the whole world, let your private details out, and then get miffed about muh privacy because you spoke into a place that was being listened to by corporations, it just doesn’t work that way.
You might be right. Privacy may be dead, but I hope you’ll forgive me for not dancing on its grave.
I’m currently fighting my city over flock cameras and I’m hearing this a lot. More people should care about privacy.
Privacy protects us from scammers and other criminals, right? Why are you pro-crime? That’s weird.
Tell them about surveillance pricing. It’s a good example because the information “already out there” is used to influence how much the stuff they buy costs. Another example would be unsecure home security/doorbell cameras that anyone on the internet can watch (if you know where to find them). Their camera feeds are “already out there”, so ask them if that’s ok.
Give me your debit card pin.
Ask to see their bank account transactions.
If the data is out there then they should have no problem showing you.
The police have a pretty low hanging bar to getting banking information and the police often seem to ignore the laws for the privileges of using their badges as leverage over private industry and companies. And they use that banking access to fuck with people that don’t like them.
That shit is not “private.”
But banks/credit unions/companies would rather sell you twice than tell you that.
Not that I disagree with the general mindset but, this isn’t a valid comparison because its unequal. It’s misinterpreting what those people are saying. There is a difference between giving your landlord a spare key and hanging that spare key on the community bulletin board.
What people really mean when they say “it’s already out there” is that people with the skillset or job to obtain the data have the ability to, not that the everyday person has the ability to. It’s not unknown the information is already out there, but that doesn’t mean that you would want to just publicly disclose the info.
When they have doorbell cloud cameras and they’re this type, I ask if they’d put one in their shower. To match your topic, I’d ask them to live stream their next email/search/web session.
I’ve had moderate success by using a handful of quotes over the years whenever this topic comes up with friends or family.
“Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.” - Edward Snowden
This quote can substitute out the “free speech” bit for “gun rights” if you are talking to a gun nut.
“I like to close the bathroom door when I’m taking a shower. It doesn’t mean I’m doing anything immoral in there, I just have the right to privacy.” - Anonymous
A fair followup question when they say “why bother, it’s pointless anyway,” that might provoke some thought on their part is: “Do you ever make any effort at all toward a goal that is ultimately a drop in the bucket? Have you ever recycled a single plastic bottle? Covered the PIN pad when entering your PIN number at an ATM? Walked to the store instead of driven? Written a letter to a congressman? If so, why? The overall effect of your action was probably negligibly small in the grand scheme of things, so why did you bother to put any effort in at all?”
The answer to that question is: just because you can’t get to 100% privacy/eco-friendliness/whatever goal it is you have, doesn’t mean you can’t put in some degree of effort to protect your rights, the earth, or hold your government accountable.
They don’t have to ditch Google entirely in one day. That’s ludicrously hard and even privacy advocates like myself can’t do it easily. You take incremental steps when you are ready. Ditch Chrome when you have the bandwidth and get Firefox. Ditch Google search in favor of DuckDuckGo when you think you can deal with the different experiences. etc, etc. Everyone’s journey is different.
Another one is “Just cause you have nothing to hide today, doesn’t mean you won’t tomorrow.”
Especially looking at the US, the assumption that what is worth hiding can’t change is dangerous. You’re comments/conversations that are legal today may be used against you in the future.
“If you think privacy doesn’t matter then i invite you to shit in the square” Btw, i 100% agree with you
Okay, let me see your browser history.
And while I’m at it, can I sit in that corner over there and watch you have sex with your wife?
Oh are we getting a little uncomfortable now? May I take a dump while you shower?
Wait, wait! What do you mean you suddenly care about privacy?
Sounds fun! Wanna get together this weekend?
I ask them to unlock their phone for me to peruse. They shut up real quick
My approach:
It is hard to shake people out of their ways of thinking.
I try and apply monetary value, as people care about money.
“Bro, Google sells your data and makes a ton of money off of what you’re giving away. Why you giving it away? You want to give me your drivers license to sell?”
Also
“You have a right to privacy. And you give up that right in exchange for email? Can I buy your vote for a cookie?”
And this
“You gotta pay like $1000 just to bid on buying your data to serve you ads. Can you afford to even see you own data being sold?”
And
“They only see what you give away for free. Are you some pervert that likes to be watched? Are you naked at home with the curtains open? No? You sure?”
I don’t push it. It’s their life and if privacy isn’t a value to them nothing I say is going to change that. I might mention the amount of data collected but that’s generally public knowledge anyway. Some people just don’t care if a company that they use has the data.
“I value my privacy more than you, there is nothing more to it” is a more than adequate statement.
