In addition to the other thread descendants, staring with u/jjjalljs@ttrpg.network:
For all the bitching about capitalism, which basically every country on Earth uses for an economic system
This is only the case because it was instituted at gunpoint. The exploration, colonization, settlement, expropriation, amassment, warfare, thievery, and conquest of the world’s economy is soaked in blood, laden in exploitation of people, places, and things and destruction of the commons. You’d know that if you were subject to it. Or, if you’d paused to read, ask, or think about it for 5 seconds.
And, I can’t believe I’m saying this in public, “just because everyone is doing it, that doesn’t make it right.”
We can vilify, undermine, and lead smear campaigns against unions under capitalism.
We can break, or prevent, unions under capitalism.
Our governments can attack us using local, state, provincial, and federal police forces whenever there is a perceived threat to capitalism.
Everything works fucking horribly with those 2781 billionaire capitalists robbing the world blind while blaming the victims.
I think it’s kind of fundamentally unjust that the owner keeps all the profits from what labor produces. That’s capitalism. Unions and government are bandaids on top of that.
The heart of capitalism is definitely theft - theft of labour; theft of time; theft of energy; and theft of value. Intrinsically, it is a system that creates hierarchy and rewards exploitation of fellow human beings. The core tenets of unregulated capitalism are, subjectively in my opinion, a reflection of the evil of the sociopaths and psychopaths who benefit from how the system operates.
While I believe in communism as an ideal and socialism as the next-best-thing (preferably governed anarchically), I don’t see how western societies will be able to immediately get from where we are today to there without terribly bloody war in which countless lives are lost and suffering of the proletariat is rampant.
I think that moves to restrict capitalism (UBI; genuinely enforced workers’ rights; nationalisation of critical industry; stripping corporate personhood to hold individuals liable for the actions of companies; universal high-quality public education from birth to higher adult studies etc.) are the way to edge closer towards a more utopian society.
I don’t know how we make that happen while the billionaires and centimillionaires still have their thumbs on the political scales though. But, a man can dream.
Its the definition according to the people who dont actually want socialism…
Everyone disagrees with what socialism means when you listen to the people who say “Socialism is the Soviets! Socialism is death panels! Socialism is when government bad!”
But if youre listening to those people you dont actually care what Socialism is, you just want an excuse to keep a broken system so you dont have to work at changing it.
Socialism is unions… but from the top down instead of just at the bottom trying to mitigate the problems brought about by capitalism. Socialism is people working together for the greater good instead of the greater profit. Socialism is people matter instead of money.
I suppose if that’s the opposite of what you want, youre right to oppose it.
For all the bitching about capitalism, which basically every country on Earth uses for an economic system, we’re missing 3 key things.
Everything works fucking great with those 3 ingredients. Imagine that.
These are all laughable but the last one is especially wrong:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
This is ignorant on so many levels.
Spell it out then. I am willing to listen, willing to be wrong.
In addition to the other thread descendants, staring with u/jjjalljs@ttrpg.network:
This is only the case because it was instituted at gunpoint. The exploration, colonization, settlement, expropriation, amassment, warfare, thievery, and conquest of the world’s economy is soaked in blood, laden in exploitation of people, places, and things and destruction of the commons. You’d know that if you were subject to it. Or, if you’d paused to read, ask, or think about it for 5 seconds.
And, I can’t believe I’m saying this in public, “just because everyone is doing it, that doesn’t make it right.”
Imagine that.
I think it’s kind of fundamentally unjust that the owner keeps all the profits from what labor produces. That’s capitalism. Unions and government are bandaids on top of that.
The heart of capitalism is definitely theft - theft of labour; theft of time; theft of energy; and theft of value. Intrinsically, it is a system that creates hierarchy and rewards exploitation of fellow human beings. The core tenets of unregulated capitalism are, subjectively in my opinion, a reflection of the evil of the sociopaths and psychopaths who benefit from how the system operates.
While I believe in communism as an ideal and socialism as the next-best-thing (preferably governed anarchically), I don’t see how western societies will be able to immediately get from where we are today to there without terribly bloody war in which countless lives are lost and suffering of the proletariat is rampant.
I think that moves to restrict capitalism (UBI; genuinely enforced workers’ rights; nationalisation of critical industry; stripping corporate personhood to hold individuals liable for the actions of companies; universal high-quality public education from birth to higher adult studies etc.) are the way to edge closer towards a more utopian society.
I don’t know how we make that happen while the billionaires and centimillionaires still have their thumbs on the political scales though. But, a man can dream.
As opposed to…
That’s rather my point! What are we to replace a free market with? Everyone screams SOCIALISM, but no one seems to agree on what that actually means.
Shall we do the literal, textbook definition? State ownership of the means of production? That’s been a complete failure.
What we need is a capitalist economic system, reigned in by:
But I repeat myself. I guess the Nordic countries, and most of Europe, who act exactly as I outlined, are failures.
Its the definition according to the people who dont actually want socialism…
Everyone disagrees with what socialism means when you listen to the people who say “Socialism is the Soviets! Socialism is death panels! Socialism is when government bad!”
But if youre listening to those people you dont actually care what Socialism is, you just want an excuse to keep a broken system so you dont have to work at changing it.
Socialism is unions… but from the top down instead of just at the bottom trying to mitigate the problems brought about by capitalism. Socialism is people working together for the greater good instead of the greater profit. Socialism is people matter instead of money.
I suppose if that’s the opposite of what you want, youre right to oppose it.
Imagine believing in this nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
Not even close to exact. You forgot the centuries of violence, colonialism, imperialism, racism, etc.
A free market isn’t really the same as “the owners keep the profits”.
They’re just throwing out ideological phrases from their indoctrination. Nothing coherent.