This kind of thing is just nuts. My understanding is that the father was doing everything by the book. And the outcome of an election just means that just by fiat, it was decided that asylum-seekers are to be treated like criminals.
Remember how the cons just kept saying, yeah, but we are only talking about illegal immigration and how it was liberals that were conflating legal immigration with illegal immigration?
It seems they keep moving the goalposts, at least when it comes to non-white immigrants. They don’t want dreamers. They don’t want anyone seeking asylum. They talk about denaturalizing people and shipping them to a country they’ve never been to. All of this latter stuff is just wildly illegal, but they don’t GAF; they are just racist and want what they want.
For most of them, it’s never been about getting rid of illegal immigrants. It’s been about all immigrants. Which I find ridiculous because if you go back in most people’s history you’ll see that one or more of their ancestors immigrated to the US. Classic pulling up the ladder behind you. Technically, all white people immigrated to the US, but even if you only start counting from the founding of the country what I said is still true.
It’s not even about immigration. It’s about skin color, simple as that.
The bad faith of the right has been blatantly obvious for decades at least. There was no good faith argument for the war in Iraq, after all. It was just… what they wanted to do, so they lied.
I want MAGA supporters to explain to me, what laws a five-year-old or his parents broke
This is a review of Biden’s border bill from 2024 (https://nipnlg.org/news/real-problem-border):
The Border Bill of 2024 died on arrival to the floor of the Senate, every news outlet having predicted its swift demise. As expected, Republicans rejected the bill after Donald Trump, the presumptive nominee, instructed them to oppose it because he wanted to run on the issue of the border. The bill would have given the executive frightening powers to exclude and expel asylum seekers, poured money into ICE and CBP, vastly expanded ICE detention, and gutted due process within the asylum system. Good riddance; but while the Border Bill is well and truly dead, we could be haunted by its ghost.
and
The Border Bill is a failure on every metric. After months of negotiations, its Senate authors pleased no one, angering progressives and leaving conservatives unswayed. It did not even gain a simple majority of votes, let alone clear the filibuster bar. And, most importantly, it abandoned immigrant communities in need of serious and urgent Congressional action. Why then, would anyone celebrate this lead balloon of a bill? Why would it become the new standard, and not simply a regrettable lapse in judgment?
Every thing that is happening now is something the current Democratic leadership supported empowering the executive with in the leadup to the election season of '24. Democrats worked to bring this about. So when you see Jeffries or Schumer calling Trump whatever he thinks is going to get him clicks, but not pushing back on any of the policies beyond the meekest of reforms, remember how we got here.
Eh, this seems a bit of Murc’s Law here.
You are saying a bill was proposed, didn’t pass, and now that Republicans are going buck-wild, trying to provoke a reaction so they can invoke the Insurrection Act, all because they have both houses, SCOTUS and the White House…this is caused by the Democrats not passing a bill?
What responsibility do the Republicans have in all this? Do they have any agency here? Seems they hold all the reins right now. Why are we blaming Democrats?
Hopefully that’s not what he’s saying. I hope what he’s saying is that the neoliberal Democrats aren’t in opposition to the crazy actions the Republicans are taking, and so anything they’re doing to stop them is purely performative.
Still not quite sure I agree with this, but I’m pretty sure that’s what the OP was arguing.
I hope what he’s saying is that the neoliberal Democrats aren’t in opposition to the crazy actions the Republicans are taking, and so anything they’re doing to stop them is purely performative.
That is a correct assessment of what I said.
Still not quite sure I agree with this
At least in as far as the contents of the bill, its not for either of us to disagree or agree with. Its what was. Democrats submitted the bill as it is written here. Biden’s whitehouse was responsible for this bill.
We could argue if it was a good bill or a bad bill; its probably obvious that I would argue it was a disastrous bill on multiple levels. Firstly, its just a terrible bill; any moral person shouldn’t vote for a party which puts bills like this before congress. Second, the manner in which Biden utterly floundered in their ability to steward preferred legislation through congress showed them to be an utterly and incapable manager of the nation. It highlighted his utter incompetence at a critical moment; that he was completely cuckolded by an out of power convicted felon who had clearly attempted to over throw the democratically elected government of the United States on January 6th. It showed Biden had no ability to manage the government he was a part of. Perfectly valid to disagree with this.
What we can’t disagree on is the contents of the bill, or which party was responsible for submitting it to congress, or that it was Biden’s legislation. Those are matters of fact.
Jfc. Genuinely, are you confused about the context of this bill?
Because Democrats (Chris Murphy (D-CT)) submitted the bill in congress under a Democratic president, during an election year. This was the Democratic idea of how to approach immigration and immigration enforcement. Their idea. Their words. Not Republicans. Democrats. In the lead up to the election, this was the argument they took to the American people and said “This is what how we think we should approach immigration. This is how we think we should approach the border.”
I’m not understanding why you think that bill is relevant here.
A bill that didn’t pass from a party that has no power is the reason we have a party that authored Project 2025, is in power, and is gleefully trying to deport people like this 5 year old and his dad?
I’m not understanding why you think that bill is relevant here.
First, just read the room. Take a look around. Everyone one else in this thread recognizes the signficance of this, even if you don’t. That means you are missing something. You should be starting from a position of curiosity as to what that is, instead of assuming you’ve got something right (which you clearly know you don’t, at least on some level, otherwise you wouldn’t be asking this question). This has been an on-going discussion in this forum for over 2 years, and you’ve been an active, contributory participant in that discussion. Even if you don’t agree, you should know the basis for the arguments being made here, simply as a matter of exposure.
A bill that didn’t pass from a party that has no power is the reason we have a party that authored Project 2025, is in power, and is gleefully trying to deport people like this 5 year old and his dad?
Yes. Democrats lost the 2024 because of how they governed and campaigned. Decisions like the one to put forwards a bill like the one being discussed contributed directly to Democrats losing the election.
We need a name for the psychological condition which is to perpetually infantilize the Democratic party. If you didn’t know, from 2023 through November of 2024, Democrats were in an existential fight against fascism taking control of the US government, and they lost. And they didn’t lose by accident. They lost doing things that anyone with even a basically perceptive assessment of US politics would have been able to predict. Predictions many of us here made, and were later demonstrated to be right.
The point is that Democrats failed to make a distinction between the policies they would advocate for (the bill in question) and the policies Republicans would advocate for. Democrats, in the manner of their governance and actions, believe in the kinds of border policies which result in the state which is “gleefully trying to deport people like this 5 year old and his dad?”. Democrats gave up any leverage or ability to draw a distinction between themselves and Republicans because there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans in this matter.
And that matters, immensely, if you want to stop this death-spiral into fascism. We’re not spiraling into fascism because of Republicans. We’re spiraling into fascism because of Democrats. And apologizing or otherwise making excuses for them is fundamental to why things keep getting worse.
No, this time I see it. The only reason it didn’t pass is because Republicans didn’t vote for it, because Trump wanted to use the border as a wedge issue. And now Trump is doing most of the things that bill would have enabled anyway.
Republicans want this. Democrats want this.
Here’s the content of the bill, https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/4361?overview=closed. The summary leaves out some things, like the increased detention capacity. You’ve got to read the entire bill to find stuff like that.
There looks to be some good things baked into the bill but overall it seems to be a pretty bad bill. And that’s assuming the bill isn’t abused by the president.
It was a terrible, unworthy, disgusting bill that undermined Democrats across the nation in their ability to stop Republicans from taking power.
yeah it left a lot out like a big increase in green cards and protection for dreamers.
