The products covered by the obligation to repair currently include:
- washing machines and washer-dryers
- dishwashers
- refrigerators
- electronic displays
- welding equipment
- servers and data storage products
- mobile phones, cordless phones and tablets
- tumble dryers
- e-bikes and e-scooters batteries (from 18 February 2027)
- local space heaters
Can’t wait to see what loopholes they will implement such that I can avoid repairing my shit and pay full price for a new one anyway because the repair costs just as much as a new one. God forbid replacing a single bearing instead of the whole wash drum, I hope the EU protects me from that like before.
You can repair it, you just need a proprietary driver, a torque wrench, 5 hands, 18 fingers, and wait 5 months for the part to arrive.
Or just take it to our shop where you can spend 250 bucks to fix your 260 dollar dryer.
I’m excited for an international business to sell a different version of the item for the EU which is “repairable”, and one for the US which is riveted and welded closed.
They won’t make it so we can install any OS we want on tablets or phones, nor make drivers published as free software, right?
We absolutely need to fight for a “software right to repair”
There is no repair without firmware. All hardware needs to be documented and ship with source. It hasn’t been enough to be able to buy physical parts since perhaps the 80s or 90s. Everything is controlled by software. Without that right to repair is a joke. Meanwhile the surveillance industry and their well greased govt supporters are trying to lock down software. Can’t have it both ways.
I wonder if this will mean screwed split-half washing machine drums, for example.
One of the most common failure points in washing machines is the drum bearing. Nowadays almost all makes are using drums where the halves of the drum are plastic, welded together, where they used to be screwed together. The welds prevent opening the drum, and make bearing replacement basically impossible. The makes will sell you a replacement of the whole assembly, but it will often cost like 2/3 of a new machine. This means that a bearing failure often results in chucking a machine that used to be repaired for a cost under a 100 € if done professionally, or tens if DIY.
I imagine the “whole assembly” concept will be used as one of the loopholes.
That specifically is such a naked example of planned obolescence i’m still salty that was not already illegal.
I was fuming when the bearing on my Bosh washing machine wore out and without batting an eyelid they wanted to sell me the whole drum assembly. Including mounting springs. Instead of just some bearings.
For the unitiated, that is roughly 70 percent of all the components in the whole machine. Other than the drum assembly there’s basicly only some logic boards, some plumbing and the motor.
All that to replace a 20 euro bearing. Which is a “wear part” by the way and should therefore 100 percent be serviceable.
My sister remodeled her kitchen about 10nyrs ago. All appliances Bosch. Microwave, fridge and oven have all had problems.
Bosch is not what it used to be. If you can afford it, Miele. Bulletproof, very well engineered and repairable.
Expensive, but worth it in the long run.
I had an all Miele kitchen, except for the microwave. 0 problems in over 15 yrs.
Miele machines are in the four digit numbers though and are, in my opinion, only really a good option if you’re in the market for higher end appliances.
I’ve instead just stopped buying into the whole idea of “quality” appliances and now just go for the cheapest that offers the featureset i’m looking for, which is usually extremely basic, off of the assumption that i’m going to need to write it off as soon at is starts failing in 5 or so years.
I appreciate miele employ higher quality componentry but I’m of the conviction reprability shouldn’t be a budget matter. You can go through a lot of cheap laundry machines for the price of one miele.
It will suprise noone a 250 euro washing machine uses cheaper components that break faster but they should also be cheap to fix, there really is no reason they can’t be.
The savings bosh make on some screws by gluing or plastic welding the drum housing shut is not in a reasonable relation to the reduction of reprability of the machine and the load of premature writeoff has on the environment.
Do cars next!!
I counter !fuckcars@lemmy.world
Thats the point: make them less “fucky”… Less noisy, polluting, dangerous, etc.
No point if it’s inherently bad.
Well done Europe! It should make it possible for other industries too!
can we have this in America? Answer: No! in fact in America everything popular in other countries is banned unless it’s used in federal buildings because “security concerns”. yeah… sure… so very worried about “national security” that security risks can only be used in government buildings and not in private homes… yeah sure… that’s secure.
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If only they could have done this with games.
Every program is open source
Amazing!!
Hopefully this will benefit other countries indirectly, instead of designing one repairable phone and one not repairable, should be easier to just design one.
“Hold my beer” - Nintendo, releasing an EU centric revision. Meanwhile Apple and Samsung are digging up every legal loophole to prevent the law applying to their devices.
Apple and Samsung be like: “It’s not a mobile phone or a tablet, it’s a phablet so it does not fall in to any category of the devices that need to be repairable.”
The loophole in the directive is smaller phones. Smartphones go from 10.16 cm (4 inches) diagonal to 17. 78cm (7 inches) and everything bigger (up to 44.2 cm) is a tablet.
Samsung and Apple’s flagship smartphones are very close to be considered tablets but that wouldn’t save them from the requirements.
Apple: hey fans, did you know the best phone is actually small?!!
I think Nintendo will transition to having only one version on the long term, precisely not to have to deal with two versions.
“Hold my beer” - Nintendo, releasing an EU centric revision.
i wonder, do we know what will be the price difference between the EU centric version and the international version?
iPhones are already super easy to repair. Apple have been at the forefront of this for years.
For the downvoters who are too blinded by their hate for Apple to believe facts:
https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores
PROS
- Display and battery repairs are well-prioritized, though not as well as in other (dual-entry) iPhone models.
- Torx screws secure the battery assembly in place, making replacements straightforward.
- Repair parts and instructions are available straight from Apple.
CONS
- Five different screwhead types and the continued reliance on adhesives complicate basic repairs.
Are we talking about the same apple that invented a new type of screw to keep people from taking their phones apart? The same apple that once people could get a trilobe driver, then made it so that generic replacement screens would not work because of some protection from non-apple hardware? Then went on to make sure that you can’t use non-apple parts in a laptop?
Yes.
https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores
PROS
- Display and battery repairs are well-prioritized, though not as well as in other (dual-entry) iPhone models.
- Torx screws secure the battery assembly in place, making replacements straightforward.
- Repair parts and instructions are available straight from Apple.
CONS
- Five different screwhead types and the continued reliance on adhesives complicate basic repairs.
the same apple that locks individual parts of devices to user accounts so that they can’t be used for repair?
Sounds like this is to prevent theft for parts. Considering it says right there that parts can be unlocked with the user’s account. So it’s the same mechanism that makes a stolen iPhone non-functional unless unlocked by the user.
sure but what if you buy one for parts?
Ask the previous owner to remove the locking, same way as they would need to if you bought the device to use it. What’s the problem?
Again, says right there they should just remove the device from ‘Find my’, which disables Activation Lock, the very same feature that prevents theft for reselling the device for regular use.
Instead of using Repair Assistant to unlock the part, you can remove Activation Lock using Find My.
what if the phone is broken and has been disassembled?
Same Apple. Signing new parts to your device is incredibly simple and DIY now.
https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores
PROS
- Display and battery repairs are well-prioritized, though not as well as in other (dual-entry) iPhone models.
- Torx screws secure the battery assembly in place, making replacements straightforward.
- Repair parts and instructions are available straight from Apple.
CONS
- Five different screwhead types and the continued reliance on adhesives complicate basic repairs.
…but only if you buy the parts new.
I wouldn’t want to be putting second hand parts in my phone when repairing it. I can’t imagine there are many second hand screens or batteries around for sale given they’re the things that are replaced the most.
Not that I’d ever want a second hand screen or battery anyway.
i’m perfectly fine with buying third-party components.
Not an option if you love somewhere where official parts are not for sale.
Super easy to repair by certified repair shops or easy to repair by people at home with minimal tool requirements?
At home with minimal tool requirements
https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores
PROS
- Display and battery repairs are well-prioritized, though not as well as in other (dual-entry) iPhone models.
- Torx screws secure the battery assembly in place, making replacements straightforward.
- Repair parts and instructions are available straight from Apple.
CONS
- Five different screwhead types and the continued reliance on adhesives complicate basic repairs.
Company that rates self repairability of phones: iPhones are easy to repair by yourself using basic tools
Lemmy: no, that can’t be true because we hate apple
Not bad by the standards of modern phones, but hopefully not good enough for the new EU standards. Imo adhesives should only be used if they’re replaceable or reusable and the screws should be limited to philips and flatheads.
hard disagree on the screws:
philps and flatheads can be damaged too easily: torx or nothing!
these teeny tiny screws are really finicky and both philips and flatheads are prone to slipping, causing faster wear and easily leading to stripped screws…
any design that is inherently resistant to that is a must for small parts!
source: worked in a repair shop ;)
Sure thing, I don’t care much about the specific screw type, just that it’s a type that’s commonly available so you don’t need a unique screwdriver for each device you own.
PH screws can go to hell, they fucking suck I hate them. Flathead is just kind of annoying. Torx all the way, they are superior in every way.
No thank you on the flathead or Philips head screws, they get burred too easily which would basically leave your phone unrepairable.
The less adhesives the better though, agreed there. Their phones are already definitely self-repairable enough for the new EU rules.
/s?
Edited to add the single best source there is for the doubters and downvoters. Take a look.
You only need a screwdriver set and maybe some rubbing alcohol.
I have to admit that I haven’t checked ifix scores for a hot minute and am surprised that since the iphone 15 Apple consistently beats all other big brands in reparability score. Before that of course they were bad, which is probably why people remember them that way. I like that trend, hopefully Samsung and Google also hop on that bandwaggon any time soon.
Strange that 73 other people, 30+ of who downvoted long after I added the proof, think that ifixit are wrong.
I don’t think they have a problem with the ifixit scores, more with the words you have chosen to convey your message. Also of course you will not find any love for Big Tech in the Fediverse ;-)
My words were the truth, I guess that’s why they have an issue with them 🤣
Personally I downvoted you because you completely forgive/forget the older devices from Apple.
They had sold approximately 2.2 billions of impossible to repair devices before they kind of changed course with the iPhone 14 line.
But those devices don’t have to meet these laws, so they’re irrelevant.
I also didn’t say they have always been great, I said they’ve been at the forefront for years, which is true. Their recent phones are easier to repair than almost any other phones on the market.
well, one thing that surely is not repairable about apple is their software. you can’t fix their operating system by installing a more meaningful alternative to it on your device, can you?
What a ridiculous and pointless comment.
how is it ridiculous and pointless? fixing software is a big concern to me.
You imply it’s broken and that you could “fix” it. Both are untrue.
The past two phones I bought were not because they broke, but because they stopped being supported on apps that I need to use.
That’s also included in the directive. Manufactures will be required to provide OS updates for at least 5 years “from the date of end of placement on the market” (which means the date the brand shipped the last device of a model).
They also have 4 months to release security updates and 6 months for functionality updates see ANNEX II for all device categories.
That is actually fairly reasonable. I use a 5 yr old Xiaomi which a has 8Gb (as much as an entry level Surface or MacBook. Fuck AI) an octacore CPU, great camera, ultra fast charge, great battery etc. But I realize most people change phones every 2-3 years regardless of how well their phone works, because of “shiny new thing”
Xiaomi 13T gang? 😁
10T. Banger of a phone.
Actually pretty repairable despite the glued back.
So frigging good value it’s insane. Have had like the 2,5,7,8,9(kids) too, all super quality and cheap.
Let me guess, iPhone?
Androids
Huh…I’m guessing banking apps? Those are the only ones that have ever given me problems on old Android devices
I’ll literally change banks over that kind of thing now.
yes
Been starting to see more randomly picky apps. Based on vintage and rooted device.
Uninstalled the FedEx app, since every time I tapped on a tracking number, it would divert to the app which would promptly shame me for having a rooted device and refuse to run.
Doubtful. iPhones have the longest support of any phones out there.
Source?
As far as I know, nearly all flagship phones, Apple or otherwise, get about 7 years of update support (
except Pixel phones with GrapheneOS which get 14ignore; I remembered this incorrectly).The difference is, even my old phone running Android 8 (a 9yo OS) can still browse the web, run all apps, and perform fine as a phone. An even older phone running Android 4.4 can still run 3rd party apps. iPhones seem to stop working about a year after they stop receiving updates, and they don’t support sideloading (also know as running the software you want to run on the device you own).
The oldest iPhone that can run the latest iOS is the 11 from 2019. Apple is still providing security fixes all the way back to iOS 15, which goes back to the 6s released in 2015. So, somewhere between 7 and 11 years for Apple depending on what you are counting as support. As a personal experience, my partners iPad from 2017 still runs fine, though it is stuck on iOS 16 and only gets security updates.
Are you sure about 14 years of support? I think Graphene basically supports things as long as Google does, due to reliance on their source code releases. Double that would be impressive.
Ah thanks, my bad; I must have remembered incorrectly. I’ve updated my original comment
Your Android 8 phone absolutely can not run every app lol. That’s a straight up lie that even people here won’t believe.
iPhones have the longest security update and os update plan out of any manufacturer.
Also worth noting that up until about 3 years ago finding an Android phone that was supported for even 4 years was almost impossible. Apple have been doing 6-7 years of full OS version updates and 8+ years of security updates almost since the start.
Oh trust me, I’m no fan of Samsung, but I tend to value control of my devices over…whatever it is Apple does. I had an iPhone until I discovered replacing the home button myself artificially bricked the device due to DRM forcing customers to go to an Apple store for repairs. Never again
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Long, but not longest. Fairphone is longer.
So I saw that my car offered up all sorts of useful diagnostic information for self diagnosing stuff. Was very excited and went to look at it for a generic fault without having to get software to tell me what the fault is. I thought "it’s stupid it has fully functional computer display yet tells me basically “contact a dealer, but it’s safe to drive” instead of what the problem is. Then I find out that because I’m in the USA, the company keeps it to themselves…
So if they see value in treating regions differently, they will absolutely go out of their way to screw over the regions that will let them.
Car manufacturers screwed over consumers the last 10-15 years big time! Cars used to be the big thing many could fix a lot on by themselves and were proud to do so. Then they basically just said incrementally to the DIY’ers “it’s all computers now, not your cup of tea”, purposely made cars less and less self repairable and got away with it! It’s infuriating.
Computers could make cars a lot more reliable and moddable. It’s proprietary/locked-down software and hardware that’s the problem.
Do you seriously think they computerized cars to make them less repairable? That’s some tin foil hat stuff there.
They started computerizing cars to make them more efficient, reliable (ironically), safer, etc. The problem is that beyond OBDII there is no standard for diagnostics, and makers keep these proprietary.
I think they are making their vehicles much more computerized and much more software-driven, and at the same time supplying their technicians with tools to deal with that, but not customers. And they are constantly flirting with ideas for subscriptions and advertising and tracking. So maybe not all that to purposely make them less repairable, but it’s more of an ecosystem that they control and the end user doesn’t.
They didn’t have to keep it proprietary, and I think in many “computer problems” the certified dealers will just replace 1 circuitboard by a new one, but it’s a part which private customers are not able to order and replace themselves
They didn’t do it for that purpose, I am saying they used the opportunity of cars becoming more digital to make them less repairable outside of “certified dealers”
Exactly, repairing your car was even a very common trope in Home Improvement, which kind of catched the average American household of that time pretty well, or so at least to TVs best abilities to generalize
Okay, but the economics of doing that are different between software and hardware. It’s much more expensive to have a full second hardware design compared to just turning a software feature off in certain markets.
Yeah, I get the impression newer cars are designed to fail just outside warranty because the car companies make more on the dealerships repairs then they do on the sale of the car.
I’ve read a couple stories of companies (planning to) release EU-only models there, but non-EU-compliant ones everywhere else.
The EU ones will become a lot more valuable on second hand markets…
Just like the USB-c on the iphone
Even then, Apple maliciously complied. They put shit speed usb-c, (maybe 2.0?) on all but the highest most expensive model.
Tbf they also did that when they were on lightning.
And they are not the only one to do that. I have a flagship android phone one step before the super flagship but It only got usb 2. It is really annoying to transfer media at such a low speed.
I don’t think every corporation is as petty as nintendo
Interesting things that are not on the list:
- Farming equipment
- Motor and electric vehicles
- Computers (including laptops)
- Video game consoles
- HVAC systems and equipment
Not sure if smart TVs fall under “electronic displays”, or if they just mean commercial displays when they say that.
not yet ! we hope !
John deer tractor lost a case that became famous in my rural area (and elsewhere). It now have to let repair shop acces the tools and allow repair on its tractors.
I take the win ! And we continue to push forward in talks, petitions, actions and repairs (autorised or else) Support and/or use open source.
Farming equipment is a particularly annoying one, that and construction vehicles, are becoming increasingly locked down by proprietary software and impossible to maintain yourself. You can’t even employ mechanics outside the dealer network in some instances and it will be more so in the future.
microwave ovens…
in fact, make that all kitchen appliances.
I guess maybe microwaves are not on the list because they have big meaty capacitors that could be holding a charge still?
The idea is not repairability by the end users (those should never try to fix their microwave oven themselves) but to make repairs possible by any competent technician.
Considering the videos on youtube about creators disassembling and modifying them and the warnings creators like styropyro and The king of random did…I don’t think they should be serviced by the regular joe. Or the dangerous parts should be sealed of from the boring stuff like the buttons (e.g. door opener) so one trained technicians can reach it but the hurdle is big enough for normies.
Computers are not on it because you will never own one in the future. You will lease them.
Fact 😒
yeah “farming equipment” is an important one. fuck john deere
What exactly do you think you’d be able to easily repair on a video game console?
Consoles are just computers now.
People repair those all the time.
Yes and no. Yes in terms of architecture, no in terms of repairability and design. How many computers have a SoC with soldered RAM? How many computers don’t let you upgrade the cpu or GPU? Good luck trying to repair the GPU or cpu or ram or SSD on a modern console. It’s just not feasible. Not because they don’t want you to, but because of how intricate and specialised they are. The parts that you could repair on a console are already easily repair/replaceable.
Broken ports, replace hard drive, replace memory, no software locks so custom software can keep it alive, replace battery (on a Switch for example).
Lots of thing right to repair could do for consoles.
I would hope that the Switch falls under “Tablets”. Because that’s exactly what it is.
A fat and weirdly shaped tablet, but I agree. I can do “switch” stuff by putting on an Abxylute or a Gamesir controller on a tablet.
Video consoles are either desktop computers with proprietary parts, or tablets with proprietary parts. There is nothing especially difficult to repair in them compared to the rest of their categories.
It would be especially hard to replace the RAM and SOC in them actually.
Yes, fair.
Well how about mobile phone, laptop or a tablet?
I’m not seeing easy written anywhere, it can still be done by experts but the idea I feel would be that its overall possible to accomplish by a third party.
They pass dystopian chat control with one hand and does this with the other.
The EU is a complex organization with different power poles and a variety of different interests. Add to that members of parliament do not always understand everything they vote for. And yes: you get bad things, nonsensical rules, but also good things.
Overall, I would say it’s positive, but when it’s bad it can be brutal.
Edit: I forgot to mention lobbying! Brussels is full of lobbyists!
It is also influenced by us, those who vote in the election of the European Union. The European Greens and Socialist & Democrats have lost quite a bit of influence since the last period.
Yes there are many lobbyists at Brussels and that’s a problem. Sorry for not being as cynical as you.
Seriously, talk about major whiplash with how they do things lmao
All those people in Brussels are out of touch. They live in their own world.
A world where there is right to repair.
Makes you think, right? Almost as if the narrative about how dystopian chat control is and how evil EU is doesn’t really add up and it’s just people repeating some bullshit they read on a blog.
There is a lot of anti-EU propaganda, especially surrounding the Chat Control.
Yes, there are some authoritarian politicians trying to push it through. But there is a reason why it has failed so many times. Because most EU politicians are really not that bad.
The propaganda is being pushed by Russia to sow discontent in the EU. That is why you see on every positive EU story, there is someone in the comment going “What about Chat Control though?” As if that proves the EU is evil.
As if that proves the EU is evil.
It sure as hell proves evil intent.
We’re lucky there’s a majority against chat control but that still means there was a minority proposing it.
And i don’t think the divide is that bigIt only proves evil intent of those specific politicians trying to push it through.
It doesn’t prove any evil intent from anything else in the EU.
The EU is a democracy. Which means that we sometimes also let evil people talk.
Sure, they can talk, to an extent, and act… to a much lesser extend, unless you want to go down a slippery slope.
Well when you think about it this is just another form of control over businesses. That’s equally authoritarian.
If businesses were people that’d be a great point.
No software updates for TVs, if that includes “smart” TVs, is insane. If the panel still works in 30 years, you should still be able to update to a supported OS version for the streaming apps in 30 years. Current “smart” TVs too often get bricked (for normies) by losing update support and then support from all the streaming apps.
Why is bicycle on the list? A bicycle is the epitome of repairability.
Edit: it got enshittified?
That is probably a reason there are no special regulations for bicycle yet. But it is still a good idea to protect it.
Derailleur hangers come to mind, some brands use a different version in the same model lineup and model year. It’s on purpose to confuse an make it difficult for the average rider to DIY.
Also Cannondale, famous for using non-standard parts (and tools) for no apparent reason.
Ok, famous to not buy them then, thanks.
I take it you never heard Van Moof bricked bikes afteir their bankcruptcy?
Edit: and thinking about ebike motors and their parts - bosch has locked down their engines real hard
Some exceptions excluded.
It’s red because there’s nothing forcing bike manufacturers to continue down the path of repairability and outside of the enthusiast community, people might not care much, they’ll just buy what’s cheaper.
Did you ever repair a bike? Its like every model has its own special tools that you need to get Something unscrewed or pulled of. (You can buy them, though)
Although I do understand the need for some of those special tools. The thing for taking apart the chain comes to mind
Electric Bike for enshittified
Yes espresso, especially the well known ones(gaggia, rocket, rancilio). They can be repaired!
Well thing is this is not about whether the items are currently repairable, but whether laws require them to be.
At the moment there’s nothing stopping some dipshit from coming up with parts locks on espresso machines the way John Deere does them.
You’re basically describing any of the electronic style coffee machines, good luck repairing a vendor lock-in optimized keurig or nespresso machine that scans your pods to validate their IDs before brewing.
Phones still have replaceable batteries? I have a Google Pixel 8. How do I even open that thing let alone replace the battery?
That enforcement only came into effect recently.
You can also buy kits to lift the back of glass sandwich phones, but that isn’t the most straightforward process.
The “mobile device” one is outdated isn’t it? They added a water proofing exemption to the battery initiative which exempts any product that may be exposed to water, which exempts mobile devices, smart watches and outdoor equipment from needing removable batteries.
I would classify a non-removable battery as the antithesis of repariability as they use single use glues to hold the covers on, and also usually glue components together as well.
Unless they are saying that even with glued components its still easily repairable? but I disagree
The Delegated Act I found says the exception is for
(a) appliances, including wearable devices, specifically designed to operate primarily in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion, and that are intended to be washable or rinseable
So I don’t think it applies to mobile phones. Or did it get changed again?
I wasn’t aware of the last condition on it, that may have been changed since last I saw it. The last one I saw was just stating if it was exposed to water regularly such as smart watches and outdoor items. So it may be that they changed the restrictions again and I didn’t notice as well. It’s also possible I’m mixing regulations up
I did find a lot of news articles saying that (for example) iPhones are excluded, though none of them had a clear source. Maybe mine is outdated too, I guess we’ll just have to see when they announce the new models.
Heh, the dryer stopped working at home and my spouse was bracing to buy a new one. So nice to break out the multimeter, find the issue, and 10 dollar part later, good as new.
Think of all the waste avoided by repairing a tiny part in a gigantic appliance.
Yeah this could be great. Part of my job involves clearing up fly tip, dumped rubbish, and a shit load of it is electric appliances. Most people don’t know how to use a multimeter, but you only need to know someone who does.
Today I repaired my toothbrush after my room mate suggested buying another one that is cheaper than mine amd the same brand as theirs.
Looked up the model, iFixIt manual available, opened it, tightened the screw on the vibrating head for the motor and put it back together.
Working flawlessly again and 50-75€ (or even more) saved.
This is a step in the right direction love it. Although I got a reality check recently when I bought a washing machine and had a chat with the guy selling them new and used. He said that from 201X onwards basically the manufacturers constructed the insides of them in a single piece which is 350€ and with that it’s not economical to fix them. So yea technically they are repairable. But I have little hope that this will actually change something for consumers or the environment.
Absolutely not enough. The EU should increase the legal warranty period instead. Standard warranty should go from 2 years to 4 years. That will increase warranty cost for manufacturers, forcing them to make higher quality products.
5 years is a good period honestly for warranty
