How about struggling but still extant written internet journalists? “Dumb” or simplified smart phones or e-ink devices? The upcoming Slate car? A local LLM/voice assistant?
There are tons of neat alternatives to tech bros, the problem is attention. People just don’t know about them, so they don’t hit critical mass.
…I don’t have a good solution to this, but the attention economy is broke and following the herd is not working anymore.
Cutting out the middle man does not involve technologically regressing.
Cutting out the middle man means stepping up and learning how the tech you use in your daily lives actually works. The only reason some tech bro can step in and ruin your life is if you let them keep you ignorant through convenience.
You want to cut out the middle man? Use, and support, open source. Fight to make everything that requires a server, be a server that you own in your own home (or is federated and in your local community). Use, and support, repairable technology… And actually repair your technology!
They are too lazy for that.
does not involve technologically regressing.
The fallacy that technological progress is inherently good is simply flawed. You could say “instead of relying on Spotify, and instead of “technologically regressing”, learn open source alternatives and host your own Jellyfin server!”
But what was wrong with “technologically regressing” exactly? A MP3, CD or even tape recording player will: always work, sound great, require zero user friction, never receive updates or security flaws, not depend on a convoluted self hosted setup.
Do you want to listen to music or impress Lemmy? There’s absolutely no argument to be made that requires accepting all tech simply because it’s tech.
Oh look. Lol Amish 2.0
It’s also a fallacy that technology always progresses. If technology from 25 years ago serves you better than technology from today, it’s the superior technology.
Exactly.
Technological progress isn’t inherently anything. It’s just technological progress; an inevitability. Fighting against it is like fighting the laws of the universe, if not outright stupidly phobic.
What defines the “goodness” of technology is how people choose to use it.
Everything more said is just pointless philosophical fluff.
Technological progress isn’t inherently anything
Exactly. So arguing that “you shouldn’t technologically regress” is meaningless.
Fighting against it is like fighting the laws of the universe
Not only is this not applicable to the argument at hand, given there’s no law of nature that makes a CD player implode just because Spotify exists, but this statement is so bizarrely wrong it’s almost hard to take the rest of the discussion seriously.
Is this supposed to be satire? How is print media owned by massive conglomerates, flip phones with no OSS firmware, handwritten letters delivered by a literal middleman, avoiding the middlemen??
They’re not defining “middleman” in the traditional sense of an intermediary in an economic exchange. The first panel introduces a new definition of the term as a tech bro attempting to insinuate himself into the process of communicating with others. The remedies offered would indeed seem to preclude this type of middleman from interfering with the process.
No they wouldn’t. All of those products involve middlemen servicing content.
When ceiling fans and AC units requires an account, yeah, something’s wrong.
The morality of a technology is determined by those in control of it, and look who’s in control today.
I see a few comments about self hosting stuff to escape the clutches of big tech, and while all that is effective to a high degree, it is beyond the abilities of the general populace.
Besides, I am also of the opinion that not everything has to be digital or smart.
I relish writing and receiving letters, it is tangible and indicates commitment. Fortunately, postal system isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
I like reading newspapers and it was sad to see all shops in my neighbourhood stop selling them during or after COVID. It was equally sad to see a lot of magazines not survive that period.
I miss my old TV that was simpler to use and started quicker than my newer smart TV. It does not matter if I disconnect the latter from the internet, it takes its time to load up. Besides, I don’t see any perceivable difference in picture quality from the distance I watch from.
Older laptops, though heavier, were more repairable. In certain aspects, they are better than modern ones: more tactile keyboard, nicer screen ratio (4:3). Of course, the newer laptops decimate the old ones when it comes to performance and screen quality but that is just technology progressing.
I could keep going on with a plethora of product categories. But across all my points, I wish some companies could continue offering such products, at least to a customer base that is willing to pay more just to support the existence of those products.
I was with you until 4:3. You should be locked up.
On a more serious note: Framework laptops. More repairable than the laptops of yore, minus the soldered CPUs which seem unavoidable in laptops now.
lol.
To rile you up a bit, I wish I could say it is a subjective thing but 4:3 is the better option for laptops.
More vertical screen estate, given one would mostly be doing their reading, writing and browsing – activities that are traditionally vertically oriented.
Even most websites just centre their content and leave behind swathes of white/empty space on both sides.
Anything beyond those activities, one should be using a bigger screen (desktop or a TV)^^^.
Jokes(?) apart, Framework laptops are the best option for folks like us as it ticks the most boxes. But it is not available in the country where I live, and I don’t want to import it as it would be meaningless without its broader ecosystem. FWIW, I have dropped them emails every year requesting them to expand their presence in more countries.
Till then, old ThinkPads. They are cheap, have enough spare parts on the market even after almost 2 decades, and even come with the kind of keyboards and screens that I like. :-)
^^^This, unlike the text above it, is a subjective thing
P.S.
I always wanted to use superscript, subscript and horizontal line. Thanks to you, I got to use 2/3. :-)
That’s just false, and is also not the message of the article you linked.
The articles point is not that avoiding enshittification won’t make a difference in the amount of enshittification you experience: To the contrary, it affirms that it likely will! The articles point is that personally avoiding enshittification isn’t an effective way of combatting the ubiquity of enshittification in society, ie “consumer activism” and “voting with your dollars” cannot create system change.
Most everyone here already knows this, and I imagine you also understood the article just fine and don’t need me explaining it to you, but you botched the paraphrase in your link thus seeding a lot of potential confusion and frustration absent some clarification. This is intentionally a thread about personally avoiding enshittification, and that does not imply a rejection of the desire to also end it oestebsibly by other means.
Did you read it till the end?
Yes: We need structural remedies, not individuals opting out. But please tell me what your implied “gotcha” is supposed to be.
What a fantastic post, thank you for linking it!
Seriously though, I do think that it’s interesting that this comic and that essay seem to take up opposite positions*, but in each case they attract more contrary comments than ones that agree. I suppose no matter what you post, any given person is more likely to comment on it if it pisses them off than if it confirms their beliefs. It’s a good thing Lemmy doesn’t reward engagement, or else we’d be up to our eyeballs in ragebait, eh?
*Unless you read the whole thing instead of bouncing off the first paragraph.
on the other hand, there is generally not much to discuss if you have an agreeing position. right?
Sure, but where are the comments disagreeing with the disagree-ers? It’s all attack, no defense.
fair point, but to get there you must go to the comments to begin with, which I believe might be less likely you do when you don’t have something to say.
I think the issue people have with “tech” is that much of the software and devices sold take up too much space and do things people don’t want them to do, without offering choice, configurability, and options for full control
This is what I see whenever I see an apple device. There’s very little control that the user can exert that Apple hasn’t blessed to be something within your control.
All computers are general purpose logic machines and they’re intentionally making them not do things that they absolutely could otherwise do, just because.
Not saying iPhones are bad, or that Mac’s are bad… I’ve just noticed that if you do things in a way that is compatible with how Apple thinks you should do them, then Apple works very well for you. If you have foolish notions to do things differently (or, “think different”… If you will), then you’re going to have a bad time.
If you use homebrew you can install all kinds of things on a mac. So, you get the power of a Unix-based machine with the nice eye-candy, ease of use, rock solid drivers, etc. of an Apple device.
But, the phones are another matter. Those things are so locked down it’s ridiculous. We really need competition in the mobile phone OS market.
I am now using lineage which is fine but still way too restrictive for my tastes. I tried using linux(postmarketos) as I am fine with a lot of inconveniences but was unable to make or take calls, which is kind of a hard line. There should just be an android based phone os which is degoogled and rooted by default, but really the problem lies with the hardware, I think. There need to be more phones with open firmware to make an alternative os really possible.
Pre computerized cars is going to be pretty hard. We’ll run out of old beaters eventually.
They’re also less safe and efficient. They’re fun, but objectively worse cars to run nowadays that parts can also be hard to come by.
There is no lack of available parts for my 21 year old Chevy.
That was made this century. To go uncomputerized, we need to be looking at the 80s and back.
I am and probably always will be a tech enthusiast, but as time goes on I find myself more and more looking for old technology to avoid planned obsolescence, anti-repair bs, telemetry & tracking, lack of consideration for quality of life…
This is not how things were supposed to be. But this is how things will be if we don’t do something about oligarchs and certain CEOs.
It is really weird, isn’t it. I’ve always been a major enthusiast for Tech. Always wanted to get in on VR when it was first evolving, as I could see how else could use VR. I bought oneof the first iPods cause I messed with one and realized it was a game changer for what we had at that time. Now, I find myself cautioning people on the use of AI and home automation. I feel like I’m turning into a Luddite.
Don’t be ashamed of being a Luddite. The Luddites were actually fighting for a righteous cause.
Too true, just didn’t think I’d be following their lead…
Technology can develop in various directions. This is exactly what it looks like when technology is developed for consumerism. Buy more now, it doesn’t need to last, stimulate the economy. Rent what you can, everything else as a service.
I’ve been wanting to convert my life to “off grid tech”. I have a nest camera i bought in 2016. So it’s pre Google. Starting about 6 months ago, Google told me unless I allow them full 24/7 access to the cam then I can’t use it. A product i bought almost a decade ago is useless unless I let them spy on me. Fuck you Google.
So anyways, off grid tech. Home surveillance on my own local server protected with physical data and VPN. No more streaming, pirate everything with local server. No more Google or Amazon anything. Music? Mp3. Email? No Gmail, maybe Proton or something. I’ll do all banking through home desktop through VPN. Etc, etc.
I hope to have all these things achieved by 2030
For email, I recommend purelymail. It’s ran by one guy I believe, but it’s a solid cheap service. It’s also pretty easy to setup your own email domains. I’m probably just a nerd, but I love custom email domains.
I would strongly recommend you at least have your own domain if you intend on buying a service from one guy. Everyone can land under a bus one day.
that sure would be a BIG bus!! i didn’t know flashmobs went this far…
😑
just saying, but the email domain everyoneunderabus.com is still available…
We don’t need to go back to handwritten mail, FOSS is the way to go.
Writing someone a letter is a very personal thing and you’re creating a memory. Something tangible, concrete, also weighs in on reality. Looking at a piece of paper with your handwrite makes you understand you’re commiting to something.
I’m a FOSS loon but the craze of making everything digital is absurd. I’ve listened to people criticizing others for using paper and a pencil to take down a memo, note or even journaling, when they can do it on their phone.
Is existing so dreadful nowadays? Does the notion of leaving proof of existence scares?
A guy I worked with, not even super closely, left me a handwritten card when he moved on saying it was a pleasure working with me. I did not expect it and almost certainly didn’t deserve it but I still have that card somewhere.
That was nice.
There is something to be said in writing a handwritten letter for someone special once in a while. But I’m so glad that I can just pick up a phone and call my brother who lives in another state and chat with him (no long distance charges). If it’s something better said in writing there’s email and texts.
There’s also the aspect of text’s that are more personal that no one really talks about. You can just check in on a friend to see how they are doing without really having any other reason to contact them. I know I appreciate it when that happens to me.
I guess you could write someone a letter asking how they are doing, but if the answer is ‘not good’, by the time you receive the reply days have passed and you probably missed the opportunity to be there for them when they needed it.
This isn’t even considering the environmental benefits of not having to A) produce paper, pens, envelopes, stamps and B) physically deliver the letters.
There’s a lot of things about modern tech that you could criticize, but I don’t think more/better options for communication is one of them honestly.
Its nothing to do with contempt for the media, or not wanting to leave evidence of my existence or anything like that, its just that I got shit to do.
Yeah, handwriting sucks. I used to type my homework in a mechanical typewriter, holy cow even that sucked. Going from that to an electrical typewriter that could hold a line in memory was amazing, but still nothing compared to a proper word processor. Wordstar in MS-DOS anyone?
I still like to sketch my ideas from time to time, but all my permanent notes are stored in Joplin, encrypted, in local backup, and synced to the cloud. I can’t afford to lose them, and I can’t afford to lug around with me a heavy suitcase of papers.
I’ve seen young people wishing for simpler times, kids using Polaroid cameras, hunting retro consoles that were already ancient when they were born, longing for music that was way before their time, etc. I get they’re disillusioned with the current state of things, but romanticizing the past is not a healthy way to cope with the horrible today.
I don’t doubt you have a busy life. And that is not the subject at hand here.
What should concern us, collectively, is that we are constantly being pushed the notion that we do not have enough time and that tech is always the solution, when it is not.
I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.
I most certainly don’t write faster than I type, and sending an email or a chat message certainly doesn’t take longer than finding something to write with and something to write on. There is a big factor of habit and lifestyle - I don’t usually write stuff down, so I don’t have prepared/assigned tools for that, but I use my computer a lot, so I do have software installed and tools/commands memorised.
And, frankly, out of many possible options, plain text is something computers are really good at - there’s basically no risk of running out of space, it’s indexable and searchable, it’s editable, and it’s very universal.
Things do get a bit more complex when you include formatting, and a lot more complicated when you start adding annotations or illustrations, or even just more freeform writing styles, but there’s still a major factor of habit - I don’t know what my note taking would look like if I had a habit of pen and paper, but I know I’m very comfortable with using tech for that, and it works great for me!
I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type
I have a very hard time believing this. From some quick googling, it seems that experienced writers can do 40 wpm, which is really slow in comparison to an (even an inexperienced) typer. Also, typing has no risk of being unreadable, unlike writing (e.g. doctor’s written notes).
and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.
Maybe if your computer is really slow.
An inexperienced typer might be slower than 40 wpm. I’ve seen people type maybe 10 words per minute using only index fingers and looking for every letter. An inexperienced touch typer is maybe 40-60 wpm range though.
I do up to around 140 wpm which many people think is lightning fast but then there’s people who can do 250 and I can’t even comprehend being that fast. Goddamn Sean Wrona.
Just to give some perspective.
If you have bad calligraphy, practice. Won’t hurt you.
Typing works perfectly fine for me in the vast majority of cases.
I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.
Maybe for you, but opening KWrite takes only 5-6 key presses and I type much faster than I write
And not just you, short hand used to be ubiquitous before the computer, now it’s all but extinct.
Not to mention the fact theyd be expecting me to write well enough to be able to reread it later. Even if I wrote it at half my typing speed I still would not be able to make that shit out.
Yeah you said that, until a doctor hand you a handwritten letter.
Weren’t those a thing to admire? Chicken scratches on the ground could be more readable.
We’re techy enough nerds to know there’s another way to be free of billionaire influence while still keeping some resemblance of modern communication: self-hosting.
Good luck self hosting something to message your contacts.
E-mail is a thing.
Dude walked face first into that one.
And I self host mine!
So do I, but I wouldn’t recommend it for everybody. Hosting your email has sucked for decades. For a long time the issue was incoming spam. That never really went away, but now in addition to that you get a constant barrage of people trying to crack into your server. Plus, you get the fun of trying to convince the big email gatekeepers that you’re still legit. And for that one they change the rules constantly and on a whim.
All your friends are on a group chat and they will periodically mail you the updates. Sure, why not?
All my friends chat over our self hosted matrix server. There is always a way.
Ðe peer group really is a concern. And OSS kind of stinks for normies much of ðe time.
I got ðe family on Circles, and my SIL (ðe one with ðe toddler) loved it… until it lost all of her posts for ðe family, and ðen shut down.
We (mostly my brother and I) convinced our octogenarian parents to switch the whole family group to Signal, many years ago. It works nicely. What saddens me though, is that Signal will never replace WA for most people, it’s Just One More App for them.
WhatsApp is just one more App for me. There are two people I wish I could convince to use signal but cannot…
Good luck self hosting something to message
Dude, it’s pretty easy to set up matrix on a docker container
your contacts
Fuck you’re right
My family and immediate friends are all on my Matrix server.
I have my own dedicated public server, so I can selfhost anything I want. And I do selfhost a lot.
I selfhost since so long that some of my domains could vote, but I still need some “mainstream” channels to be reached by several people.
If we can argue that close friends will put extra effort to contact you on whatever you use, it’s also true that your landlord, the plumber, the chick you picked up last night, won’t give a shit and simply consider you a lunatic 99% of times if you tell them to use anything non-mainstream.
Yeah, but Matrix has bridges for almost anything.
And people still use email.
Yeah, but Matrix has bridges for almost anything.
But then you are simply using Whatsapp with extra steps.
Why self-host messaging when there are so many good options?
You’re asking the wrong guy. I don’t think it makes sense either even if I’m a (moderate) self-hosting guy.
I get the idea, but I am kinda stuck on the letter writing bit. They do know that the post getting delivered is kinda built on middlemen right?
Also, food delivery has always involved middlemen. Instead of food delivered through an app, it was food delivered after a phone call. But, it was a human middleman delivery driver doing the delivery.
Yeah middlemen have been a part of almost all commerce from the start, every store, every trade and most services are in some way middlemen. I think the comic’s message is good but is attributing the terrible actions of llm to middlemen in error.
Usually those middlemen don’t open up your mail, read what you wrote, then serve you ads based on that.
GPG.
Everything you do relies on some middlemen, it’s just about cutting out layers.
You won’t grow your own food, but you can buy it from a farmer, instead of a store who bought it from a franchise center who bought it from a supply network who bought it from a risk management futures buyer who bought it from a farming company who bought it from a farm.
That’s exactly what is so nice about FOSS based systems. You can use technology but without the tech bros and the corporate enshittification.
FOSS is great and I love it but we do have our own idiots/FOSSbros, even if it’s not about corporate enshittification.
Saw a post on wafrn (rip on maintenance rn) complaining about FOSSbros and was confused, until they gave an example of this blog post where some asshole was shitting on the author for having criticisms against distros for not being easy and friendly for blind/visually empaired people. The blog post is line-by-line breakdown of that guy’s comment.
Original Comment
Okay, first of all, it’s GNU/Linux, not “Linux.” You keep saying “Linux” like it’s some magic OS that fell from the sky, when in reality it’s just the kernel. The real operating system—the one that gives you your shells, your coreutils, your compilers, your sanity—is the GNU system. By not calling it GNU/Linux, you’re erasing the work of decades of free software pioneers who fought tooth and nail so you could sit there whining about things not being shiny enough. You sound like the kind of person who installs Arch and then blogs about how hard it is to use a terminal. News flash: it’s not hard—you’re just lazy.
Second, the whole “Linux isn’t built for people” line? Give me a break. You want an OS that’s “built for people”? What people? Consumers? Passive clickers? People who treat a computer like a Netflix vending machine? GNU/Linux isn’t built for users the way Apple or Microsoft defines users—as data sources for ads, or potential subscribers to whatever crapware-as-a-service model they’re shoving this fiscal quarter. GNU/Linux is built for users in the sense of users who use their brains. If you’re allergic to learning, maybe this ecosystem isn’t for you—and that’s fine, just stop trying to dumb it down for the rest of us.
You’re mad because you don’t “feel welcomed”? Look, freedom isn’t about making you feel hugged while your system silently phones home and installs DRM. GNU/Linux is about you owning your machine. It’s about writing a shell script to replace some bloated GUI monstrosity because you can. It’s about reading the manual and understanding your stack, not begging for some dev to “just make it work like macOS.” You’re not being excluded—you’re being challenged. If you don’t like that, maybe stick to using ChromeOS with your Google account tethered to every bodily function.
And don’t think I didn’t notice you never once mentioned freedom in your post. Not even once. Not a single nod to software freedom, user control, or the social contract behind all this code. That tells me everything I need to know. You think this is about convenience, when it’s really about liberation. This isn’t about your fonts not rendering or your Wi-Fi card needing a firmware blob. This is about you refusing to confront the responsibilities of being in control.
You want GNU/Linux to “love you back”? That’s not how this works. GNU/Linux isn’t Trump, trying to flatter you while stabbing you in the back. It’s not some product that wants to manipulate your emotions to get you to upgrade. It’s a tool, and it assumes you’re smart enough to wield it. If you want love, get a dog. If you want freedom, open a terminal.
So we do have the “FOSS is always easy and gets the job done, if you can’t handle it you’re an incompetent toddler who just wants big tech to make your life easy,” tech bros. Like that “smart guy makes fun of disenfranchised people for still participating in a society” comic.
or, you know, you can have best of both worlds with open technologies. tech that you own and control.
i wonder whether we will have to seize the means of computer chip production as well …
Of course we would.
