Honestly call or email the Democratic party offices and voice that you one hundred percent agree with Sanders.
I’m not upset Bernie was criticized - no one should be above a good-faith critique and ideas should be judged on merit as opposed to who says them. The reason I disagree with Pelosi is that I think Sanders made some damn good points, and if the Dems don’t listen they are going to fail again.
Pelosi is a piece of shit whose career should have ended in jail for insider trading decades ago.
As a Democrat, even I’m sick of Pelosi’s shit.
deleted by creator
New information shows his internal polling at the time showed he’d lose to Trump’s 407 electoral votes… He still refused to step down for over a month. You are incorrect that he would have won by all metrics that can be known.
Joe Biden absolutely would not have won wtf are you talking about 💀
He would have lost even harder.
The reason I disagree with Pelosi is that I think Sanders made some damn good points, and if the Dems don’t listen they are going to fail again.
They would rather fail than listen.
They would rather fail than
listensacrifice corporate donations
I think the biggest issue was actually with messaging. Democrats were still pretty much relying on MSM which almost no young people watch.
I think that beyond what Sanders says what left needs are young people, true populists (as opposed to pseudopopulists ones like MAGA has) with progressive messages.
No, I would say an over reliance on mainstream media certainly hurts them, but their messaging still sucks. Just to go with examples Bernie provided here, how do you think the Democrats message that the economy is doing just great resonates with the 60% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, the 25% of elderly people who need to eke out a living on $15,000 a year or less, or the 20 million Americans working for less than $15/hour? It’s a slap in the face to all of them. Messaging is not just getting the message out, but sending the right messages, and the Democrats whiffed hard on that front. They need to do some serious self-reflection and make some drastic changes to both the structure of the party and its platform if they want to do anything more than win the odd election for a single term when the GOP oversteps itself. Pelosi and the old ghouls that support her should all be kicked to the curb.
Like seriously, who do they think they’re fooling? This rhetoric of “the economy is great” doesn’t work on people who are struggling more and more every year through no fault of their own. Nobody but the super rich give a shit about quarterly profits and your definition of recession. The working class has been in “recession” for decades.
This rhetoric of “the economy is great” doesn’t work on people who are struggling more and more every year through no fault of their own.
I’m starting to reject the idea that people should get less help even if it is some fault of their own.
We shouldn’t have a system where if you don’t make every decision perfectly you just deserve what you get and should just suck it up. There should be more ways for people to turn it around, more ways for people to get a mulligan for past (or even recent) bad decisions that helps them get back on their feet or better yet put their feet on a better path.
Making a bad decision (or two, or three) on education or finances or even (to a point) breaking the law at the youngest and least experienced points in your life should not be something that puts you on an uphill climb for decades afterward.
The same rhetoric that the Republicans use to great effect even when they torch the economy…
Honestly I think this is huge. I’m nowhere as old as these dinosaurs but even I’m surprised that people get “news” and info from podcasts and such. Mainly because any old jackass could prattle on about whatever without a single lick of knowledge but…
That appears to be the case though.
any old jackass could prattle on about whatever without a single lick of knowledge
Welcome to rural talk radio.
Based on his remarks, I won’t be shocked if he’s working on organizing a whole new political party that’s going to eventually supplant the Democratic Party altogether.
And if that’s what he’s doing, and he pulls it off, it’ll be a good thing, and I’ll probably register a political affiliation other than “no party/unaffiliated” for the first time in about 14 years.
I won’t be shocked if he’s working on organizing a whole new political party that’s going to eventually supplant the Democratic Party altogether.
I don’t know how such a thing could ever happen, but I never thought where we are today could happen, so what do I know?
Yep, same.
This was my thought as well.
These Conservative Democrats are so uninspiring that we’d allow Nazi level fascists to take over.
If this is the political reality, then it’s the political reality that must be adapted to.
Centrists would rather lose.
Conservative democrats are republicans. The dems made their tent so big that it has lost all meaning. I dont recall dem politicians ever going to the right of repubilcans in the past. It would have seemed impossible. Biden/Harris normalized it.
I’m getting down voted to fuck elsewhere for pointing this out.
Sorry to hear it. Sometimes the dogpile is real.
Copium and sour grapes help wash it down. I was highly let down but not the least bit surprised by the outcome. I am trying to get people accept that the Dems need reform if we’re going to continue with a two party system.
Unfortunately, the Pelosis and Schumers are going to continue to shove milquetoast and false hope down our throat while continuing to move to the right to try and grab the republican demographic.
Meanwhile, the rest of us just want food, education, housing, and a way to retire before we’re 90.
Pelosi’s attitude is a big reason why
She believes voters work for her and need to do what she wants or she scolds them, afterwards they’ll listen.
Bernie believes the best way to get elected is to show voters you’ll help them.
One method is very effective, it’s just foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations pay a lot of money to make sure candidates like that never make it out of a primary.
If an elected official put the average voter first, where does that leave the wealthy?
Not first? Completely unacceptable, Thurston get my mink we’re leaving.
Bernie is one of the few remaining politicians in our country who are in politics as a service vs a career. I wouldn’t be surprised if after every time he gets elected he consoles himself, “this’ll be the last time you need to run, this is the cycle where we’ll fix American politics and you can go back to your dream of opening an ice cream shop.”
One method is very effective, it’s just foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations pay a lot of money to make sure candidates like that never make it out of a primary.
Slight disagreement. They pay a lot of money so candidates like that don’t make it into a primary.
The Pelosi interview is honestly batshit insane. She doesn’t see the election as a rejection of the party, thinks the Democrats are doing well, Kamala Harris did everything right, Sanders is wrong, and then she made some backhanded comments about how Biden should have dropped out earlier. I know some of that is spin she that she has to say, but it’s still deeply out of touch.
Kamala Harris did everything right
She presented her message of ‘vote for me to keep things the same’ flawlessly. Unfortunately, people who live paycheck to paycheck don’t want things to stay the same.
They’re looking forward to wishing they were able to live paycheck to paycheck…
Lord knows you’re looking forward to watching people suffer just so you can lecture harder.
Scolding voters into voting for someone who represents no deviation from an untenable status quo has failed, very publicly, twice. It doesn’t matter how bad the opponent is. This strategy is shit. Stop using it. Learn, damn you all. Learn.
I voted for Harris.
Me too and I wasn’t saying that I’m looking forward to it…I’m saying the economics are going to be horrible and we’re going to long to these times back.
Yeah, if Trump pulls the stuff he said he’d pull (Tariffs and mass deportations), then the supply of goods inside the country will fall drastically, resulting in stronger inflation. Which will then result in consumption of anything nonessential to collapse. This will lead to increasing unemployment.
While that is why will likely happen, most voters aren’t knowledgeable enough to recognize it. They don’t know what tariffs are or how it’ll effect us, for example. They trust the media to tell them the truth, which is horribly misguided.
She presented her message of ‘vote for me to keep things the same’ flawlessly. Unfortunately, people who live paycheck to paycheck don’t want things to stay the same.
Nope. Her plan was “I am going to lower taxes on the middle class and provide additional help n these specific ways”. But she presented that plan in a very flawed way.
That you were not aware of her actual message is partly your fault and partly her fault.
No, it’s her fault.
It’s not… I was aware of her 82 page economic plan. How come you weren’t aware of it? It’s your fault that you weren’t aware of her economic plan while people like me were aware of it. If I did you then you could have done it.
Honestly, fuck Pelosi. Completely out of touch. I wish we could ride ourselves of these dinosaurs.
Now this is
podracingpolitics!
So long as she can keep trading on insider information I seriously doubt that she cares.
“do you really think that the Democratic party is going to the mat… and fighting for you?”
Forget about me, or the working class, the Democratic party doesn’t actually fight for anything.
2000 election stolen in Florida? Ho hum, oh well… we’ll get 'em next time! (2004 election stolen in Ohio…)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa
https://www.wired.com/2008/03/the-mysterious/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republican-it-guru-dies-in-plane-crash/
You rightly nominated a Supreme Court Justice but the Senate refuses to give them a hearing? Oh well! Guess we’ll just have to win the 2016 election…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland_Supreme_Court_nomination
They couldn’t even prosecute Trump for the crimes he committed. I wonder how many people that stayed home would have shown up for a party that showed it can hold rich criminals accountable. They should have used the 14th when they were discussing it, but decided not to for no known reason.
Well, New York prosecuted him, and convicted him, but delayed sentencing until after the election. We’ll see how that works out for them.
If only there were four years where the head of the entire executive branch could have helped apply the law at all. Oh well.
Federal government isn’t involved in State criminal cases, but you’re right, he could have pushed the two federal cases and maybe raised the question of “Hey, don’t we need to investigate Bedminster too?”
The 14th amendment comes to mind but no one choose to enforce it. Colorado courts stated it was a fact that Trump participiated in insurection, why didn’t anyone then enforce the 14th? Theres only one branch of government whos job that is.
Supreme court ruled that states couldn’t and by that time, the House was controlled by Republicans.
I’d argue we need an amendment barring felons from running.
Pelosi is the best example of what’s wrong with Dems. Literally enriched herself off the pain and suffering of the working class and poor.
I’m a Sanders guy, but Pelosi held against an onslaught. She’s tough, and that’s good.
She’s good at holding her own. Too bad her own is neo liberal garbage and self enrichment.
The Democrats win on policy, but they’re horrible at rhetoric.
The dems used to win on policy, but now they do whatever they want (or are paid to do) regardless of the will of their voter base.
They only want to do what pays the best
The fuck are you even talking about? The last shit they could even use their multi-trillion dollar propaganda machine to spin as a positive was RomneyCare.
If anything you’ve got that backwards. They can run the worst candidates possible with literal fucking fascist policies and still get tens of millions of votes based purely on vibes.
I"m saying they’re good at getting shit done, but horrible at letting anyone know they actually got anything done. I don’t even think they vote on vibes given that no one on the GOP hasn’t given off the most scummy fucking vibes I’ve ever felt.
Hell Vance and Paul Ryan have basically the same vibes
I"m saying they’re good at getting shit done, but horrible at letting anyone know they actually got anything done.
And I’m telling you you’re delusional. The exact opposite is true as evidenced by your own rationalization.
I don’t even think they vote on vibes given that no one on the GOP hasn’t given off the most scummy fucking vibes I’ve ever felt.
Did you switch to talking about republicans here? We’re talking about democrats voting and you’re talking about the vibes of the republicans being bad like that’s not literally part of what I already said.
Pelosi is wrong about Sanders. But she did not “enrich herself”.
Bernie is literally quoted in the article saying “Nancy is a friend of mine”.
The main thing she’s known for is rampant unabashed insider trading. If that isn’t enriching herself then I don’t know what is.
Pelosi is wrong about Sanders. But she did not “enrich herself”.
🤣
🤨
Pelosi is wrong about Sanders. But she did not “enrich herself”.
Are we playing the “it’s her spouse who is the stock investor” game?
https://www.newsweek.com/how-nancy-pelosi-net-worth-vastly-increased-while-house-speaker-1762361
Because if this is how one accumulates wealth, it certainly sounds like it’s “off the pain and suffering of the working class and poor.”
D.C.-based nonprofit OpenSecrets.org estimated Pelosi’s net worth at $115 million in 2020, a rise of $41 million since 2004 - the first year OpenSecrets began tracking members’ personal finances.
Paul Pelosi’s company, Financial Leasing Services, has been highly successful in its investments in recent years and those investments have included shares in major firms such as Disney, Amazon and Google.
The New York Post estimated that the Pelosis had made between $5.6 million and $30.4 million between 2007 and 2020 through capital gains and dividends from investments in five tech companies - Facebook, Google, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft - based on public disclosures.
That’s not really good evidence. They could’ve made more money by just holding an SP 500 index fund. Their recent Visa trade is better evidence.
Fair! But personally it’s my opinion that in all but a vanishingly small number of cases, if someone is sitting on high tens of millions of dollars and on up, I feel very certain that fundamentally this description works:
Literally enriched herself off the pain and suffering of the working class and poor.
While there are people who are underpaid and struggling to eat, there’s not a path to that kind of wealth that isn’t directly or indirectly exploiting their pain and suffering.
Their wealth is itself the evidence.
Unfortunately his whole political career has been the democrats telling him he’s wrong as they continually shoot themselves in their collective dick.
I, for one, will be writing in his name, voting third party or not at all until they give me a genuinely progressive candidate. Until then, fuck them, and fuck this country.
One of the biggest things about being a leftist is being right about stuff before it’s considered polite.
It’s like being Cassandra, the Greek seer who can see the future but is cursed to forever be not believed.
What is needed is a socialist organization of voters who together have enough voting power to make our break a Democratic representatives career.
What is needed is a socialist organization of voters who together have enough voting power to make our break a Democratic representatives career.
Yes. But it can be any group of voters. Could be a ‘tea party on the left’.
Aren’t organization and group synonymous?
And of course, this is assuming that Trump isn’t going to establish himself as a dictator. Of course, the thing is Trump is too old to be dictator. And the people around him don’t seem to be the most competent, either. So I sort of don’t know what’s going to happen. In any case, I’m glad that I don’t live in the US, thought authoritarianism is advancing globally.
If Trump is going to establish himself as a dictator, then this kind of group is even more important. Lots of socialist groups have toppled totalitarian leaders, and when they haven’t, it’s usually because of western countries like the US helping the dictator. Of course, it might have to run underground a bit more, but solidarity between various organizations will be extremely important in the upcoming 4 years.
Well, you’re right, but then the group’s tactics would need to be fundamentally different.
progressives are already 8% of voters. We can make or break elections now.
And progressive policies are supported by supermajorities of both democrat and republican voters…. Oh well
Having the numbers isn’t enough, there needs to be organization. A group of 8% of the electorate that votes in lockstep could affect policy pretty fundamentally, more than any amount of money could.
Now, imagine this sentiment among thousands of people, across multiple states. That’s how you lose an election.
Lmao buddy. Ignoring the people to the left is how you literally just lost an election
Sorry, but losing strategies deserve to lose. Im tired of voting for someone because they’re slightly less bought and paid for.
The best reason to vote for Harris was because she was going to raise taxes on billionaires and corporations like Biden did also. Why would you NOT do that?
If two partys are not representing my interests at all, the winning strategy is to make my vote about punishing the one that didnt represent my interests when it was in power. This way it will have to adapt to recognize my interests when it needs my vote to get back to power.
By just always voting whatever party claims to be the less evil for me, all i do is create a race to the bottom of evil, as i make sure that my vote does not need to be fought for.
Unfortunately his whole political career has been the democrats telling him he’s wrong
Nope. Neither Biden nor Harris never once told Bernie he is “wrong”.
The Republicans are doing zero for the working class other than lying to them and giving their money yo billionaires.
Dems supported unions where Trump impugned them
Dems forgave student loans, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems pushed to end noncompetes for the average worker, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems passed the CHIPS act to bring good paying jobs to multiple communities
Dems passed an infrastructure bill while Trump had 100 infrastructure weeks that accomplished nothing
Trump said he’d fire workers rather than pay them overtime
Harris promised to investigate price gouging, Trump is supported by the oligarchy
Etc, etc
Which indicates that policy is secondary to messaging. On every substantive policy metric, Democrats are better than Republicans. People even say they prefer Democratic policies over Republicans’ when polled, by wide margins. So it must be the messenger and the way the message is being conveyed that is losing elections. That’s not to say that policies don’t matter, they absolutely do, but if you’ve got great policies and shit messaging, then you’re not going to win voters over, no matter how much better you are.
The democrats don’t try to appeal to those without higher education. Republicans are great at presenting information in easy to digest bites.
Nonsense. They try nonstop to appeal to Republicans.
You’re like the ultimate contrarian in every comment. It’s kinda weird. I don’t get it. What’s your endgame?
I suppose it looks that way when you already get everything you want from the party.
I forgot which comedian did this bit during their standup but their point was that progressives/liberals/leftists suck at messaging or sloganeering. Their goals are noble but there are no catchy slogans to go with it.
Just think about it. “They’re killing the babies!” is way more catchy and effective than “Access to abortion should be available to everyone. Even if you want to have a child, some complications or health issues may require you to abort the pregnancy as early as you can.” Yeah that’s not reaching everyone, is it? And you can’t scream it like “They’re killing the babies!”
And that’s just an example of policy that was chosen by few states’, which they also voted for GOP, giving them power to ban abortion on federal level. (In case you are wondering which states: Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada)
If you can’t communicate how you can give the people what they want, how do you even counter “Democrats hate America!” or stuff like that?
My body, my choice has been the message since forever.
And that works great as a protest slogan where people are already aware of how it works. But not a great slogan when you want to reach to people who are ignorant about what it entails.
All of those things you posted sound good, but if you look at the details and execution, it’s either a pathetically laughable attempt or something they should have done 3 years ago.
Prosecute companies for wage theft.
Start splitting up monopolies at the beginning of your presidency or vice presidency, not at the end.
Don’t destroy the train union and then pretend that you’re pro-union because you went to one picket line. And as I recall, it was Joe who went.
When you push for non-competes or you push for student loan forgiveness, and the Republicans find legal ways to stop your efforts, find other legal ways to continue your efforts. If you just shrug your shoulders and say we tried, but we couldn’t make your lives better, of course nobody is going to think that you meant a word you said.
The Democrat said 4 years to deliver, or at least to show that they tried very hard to deliver, and they chose to do neither of those. Which is sad.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past. When we don’t get an answer, we just shrug our shoulders. It’s more of the same from Washington politicians. Democrats in Washington certainly represent somebody, but that somebody isn’t you and me.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past.
I’m very much on the “Dems fucked this up train” but you’re getting really close to this, which is also true. Because maybe the answer there is "You saw him up on that debate stage right? Or “You know I’m VP, not P right now, right?”
Joe and the train crash is real union support. Please.
Uh… We all know Trump is bad you’re not proving anything here. However, policies aside, Harris’s campaign sucked ass. If you don’t understand or refuse to accept that then there’s no conversation to be had here.
Edit: I was responding to an argument that doesn’t exist nvm.
Are you trying to make a point? Because you’re not saying anything
I’m not defending Harris’ overall campaign, but I am taking some issue with Bernie claiming that the Democrats have abandoned working class voters.
I like Bernie, and he makes some good points about the lack of any bill put forth to raise the minimum wage. But I think his overall characterization is quite a bit off base, especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
I’ll listen to any counterpoint with an open mind but you have to make one
Oh yeah my bad there. I’ve seen enough “there was no problem with Harris’s campaign” takes that I kinda default to that.
To respond to the actual point you made, let’s first forget about any comparisons to Republicans because that’s just not the point here. After that I wanna establish that Biden’s administration is, by all means, an exception. He ran on an explicitly left-wing platform that Bernie had a role in creating, and despite still being a corporate democrat did things that actually helped the working class. Compared to his campaign Harris ran on “nothing will fundamentally change” and straight up said she didn’t have anything in mind that she’d do differently from Biden regarding the economy. That rejection of change, which shaped her campaign as a whole (the economy is just the most egregious example), is abandoning a working class who desperately needs change. Add in how Harris explicitly tried to court Republicans and we have reason to believe the DNC intended to shift to the right rather than the left, again abandoning the working class.
All fair points. My intended point was that take some exception to Bernie’s blanket statement that the Dems abandoned the working class voters. Though I agree they haven’t focused enough there, nor message it correctly.
Biden definititely ran and led on a more progressively left platform after Bernie and AOC collaborated with them in 2020. I think it’s clear Harris was going to continue that, but I don’t think it was properly messaged
I almost feel like someone maybe confused comment threads because it’s not directly related to your main comment.
especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
Nothing? They’ll be taking away what working class has now. That’s worse than offering nothing.
No Nancy. You and your DNC are wrong and that is why you lost the presidency, senate, and house.
Fake party.
Clearly this loss lies solely on the shoulders of black and Latino voters, as well as the evil Bernie Bros and the progressives.
We just need to go further to the right next election while continuing to raise record dark pac money contributions. Then we can win!
Pelosi is wrong. But she is not the owner of the DNC. The DNC is controlled by delegates elected by primary voters. The DNC is not a person or monolithic entity.
I am not postmateDumbass and can’t speak for them, but Nacy Pelosi serves as a superdelegate, meaning she wasn’t elected to her position in the DNC. Blaming the voters for her presence there is wrong (however, blaming the voters for electing other selfish, poor-performing delegates would be fair game to me). I would guess their frustration is with the system which created this problem. If the people aren’t being heard year after year the group should be replaced by something that actually fucking works.
Nacy Pelosi serves as a superdelegate, meaning she wasn’t elected to her position in the DNC.
You know who is also a superdelegate? BERNIE SANDERS. Being a superdelegate does not make someone “the DNC” nor make you a member of the DNC executive committee.
I would guess their frustration is with the system which created this problem. If the people aren’t being heard year after year the group should be replaced by something that actually fucking works.
I’m frustrated too. But if you don’t know how the system works you can’t change it. Instead of railing against an invisible boogyman, focus on individual politicians and the media message.
And focus on simple and ideas concepts.
Wealth inequality <-- not nearly enough focus
Identity politics <-- way too much focus.
This is working just fine. Look at the contributions they got.
The DNC is controlled by delegates elected by primary voters.
I’m afraid thats not entirely true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
Also, party leadership constantly changes the rules to suit the election cycle. They are a private entity and can run primaries however they want. In the DNC vs Sanders case, they successfully argued that they can elect canddates in a smoke filled back room if they so chose, and had no legal duty to fairness or in representing the will of the voters whatsoever.
I’m afraid thats not entirely true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
It is entirely true. No superdelegate can vote in the initial primary vote.
They are a private entity and can run primaries however they want.
Subject to the DNC charter. They are bound by the DNC charter in the same way that the government is bound by the Constitution.
they successfully argued that they can elect canddates in a smoke filled back room if they so chose
They argued they could change the DNC charter, which it technically true. The USA how the power to change its Constituion, but it is still bound by it.
It is entirely true. No superdelegate can vote in the initial primary vote.
they change that rule as needed every election.
voting machines should not been trusted.
that is the real.
voting machines should not been trusted.
statement? question? wild random bullshit?
BlueQ.
a paper reciept for recount is an easy way to validate these machines. I’m skeptical of fully digital systems as those are harder to validate.
A paper receipt is also a good way to be able to buy someone’s ballot or force them to vote a certain way under threat of violence.
yeah exactly. ohio (who just elected a shitheel used car salesman to Senate) shows you the printout when you vote, but you can’t take it with you
edit: i am in favor of this, basically, though I do not like the outcomes in Ohio the last 8 years or so. the state is fucked
Pelosi’s response kinda proves that the DNC is just the other side of the shit coin running the funhouse arcade game of American democracy
Big bussiness is scared that if given the chance bernie would win and they cant risk that.
Let’s not wrap it in some mysterious “big businesses” it is really oligarchs vs us, they take more and more of wealth making all of us poorer and then use media (which they control) to say it is because of minorities our lives are so shitty.
I highly recommend On Freedom book by Timothy Snyder which talks how we are being manipulated to go against our best interest.
I think everyone should read it and be aware as things won’t improve unless we start fighting back.
Let’s not obfuscate with “oligarchs” either.
They’re the bourgeoisie. It’s the same struggle now as it was 100 years ago.
Honestly call or email the Democratic party
Do it because it will be cathartic, but don’t do it expecting them to listen. Progressives need a new tack if we’re actually going to save humanity from ourselves. (Spoiler, we probably won’t)
. (Spoiler, we probably won’t)
Shes nodding to the corporste over lords. She’s saying:
don’t worry, we will never betray your riches kisses feet we will fight for your continued market dominance and wealth inequality
She is a corporate overlord. The old witch couldn’t care less about normal, poor people.
She deserves to be treated like a queen of france.
Well I don’t respect Pelosi, so I feel like we’ve got balance here
It is a rare moment when you can pinpoint issues that Bernie Sanders was on the wrong side of, even with the benefit of hindsight. Because of that, I have more faith in Bernie Sanders’ wisdom than any other politician at the moment.
