im so sick of seeing reports regarding men posting in women-only communities and i cant help but get annoyed with these guys.
the rules are clearly presented. either youre not paying attention or youre just an asshole who purposefully throws their opinion in a place explicitly not wanting it.
what the fuck is wrong with you guys?
Mod notice: semi-controversial but serious question has been raised about an actual issue. Keep it civil and stay classy.
If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. Or at least be tastefully funny about it.
EDIT:
Thanks for providing a great reason to leave this community.
The OP has been hostile in the comments, and in their OP, violating Rule 1, and Rule 5.
Do better.
OK, I pulled out a computer for you so I could see the rules side by side with my post because my mobile client doesn’t allow it.
Rule 1: Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here.
OP came in swinging hot, maybe a little toxic, but there are valid points behind the hot words.
However, OP has shown that they are able to accept other viewpoints from valid arguments (https://lemmy.ca/post/48960508/18080134). So I would argue this is borderline.
I have to say, I have no idea what sealioning is though.
Rule 5: This is not a support community.
It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
This isn’t a “How do I”. This is an open ended attempt (with some frustration) to try to under why members of the community do certain things.
That’s my view anyway. What’s yours?
Sealioning is when someone pretends to be ‘just asking questions’ in good faith in an attempt to sow discord in a community.
Fuckin’ hate that Kareny lickspittle bullshit. 🤌🏼
“Cite sources of your claim, prove it, and spend ages providing material that I will dismiss as irrelevant!”.
The name comes from this comic:
Sparrohawcs explanation is also a pretty good one.
This is an open ended attempt (with some frustration) to try to under why members of the community do certain things.
I am fine with not commenting in women-only spaces, but that is very much not what OP is trying to do. OP is venting and using a rhetorical question they don’t seem to particularly want an answer to. Is that “requesting support?” Does that extend to emotional/moral support?
I think if the OP is complaining about not following the rules and spirit of a community when posting, it seems appropriate to point out if they are violating the rules (and spirit) of the community they post it in.
I shared my view and left the community. Was something about my comment unclear?
I didn’t see why it was a clear violation of rule 5. I was wondering why you thought it was
Thanks for providing a great reason to leave this community.
It’s not an airport. You don’t need to announce your departure.
It’s not an airport. You don’t need to announce your departure.
I know.
I did it because I wanted to share my point of view, like you have done here. Both of which are admittedly pointless and time wasting endeavors.
Also, I’ve always been a bit skeptical when someone decides to leave a community because they don’t like a post and/or poster. As if they represent the totality of the sub.
It is not about the post or poster, it is about the lack of action from mods in regards to the post or poster. Which is a constant problem in this community that I have noticed, and a good reason to leave it.
I find it funny that you care so much, so thank you for that.
Honestly the varied mobile platforms don’t always present the channel/groups rules in advance. Especially if one is just browsing trending topics. There can potentially be no way for some users to be informed enough before they see a topic they want to interact with.
Best solution I found for similar issue is polite advisement of the rules via dm or other preferred method and helping them learn and have better internet etiquette.
Calling folks out publicly can get alot of negative associations with it as well which might end with you group on the wrong end of a troll.
Yup, this is it for me. I blocked womenstuff, mostly so that they wouldn’t have to deal with me stumbling in from sorting all by new.
valid points!
It’s very often right in the title, AND the description, yet filled with men’s comments.
Nope. To be clear, the rules are not in the titles of most posts or the community name.
Why the hell SOME women can’t stop generalizing men’s behaviour?
What the fuck is wrong with you, guys?
irrelevant. its none of your business what they converse amongst themselves
If the community is private you might have a point, but there are very public women’s only communities on this platform who’s conversations show up in the aggregate feeds–that’s not just “conversing amongst themselves.”
This I disagree with, as it’s an open community.
It’s read only to men.
But don’t post, yes. Period. That part is pretty simple.
I worry about what incels write about women in incel forums. It can lead to horrible behavior outside those forums.
The recent tea app debacle shows you are quite wrong about that.
the rules are clearly presented
I use Voyager. Community rules are hidden unless you specifically go to that community page, open the menu, and select “sidebar”. It’s incredibly easy to miss.
If a community only wants some people posting then a quick fix is to not allow just anyone to post to it.
I think generally if somebody does this genuinely they are politely told the rules but then some feel hard done by and start whining about it.
TIL there is women only spaces on the internet. How do you even enforce it?
Mandatory penis inspection, obviously.
They use the UK way, where you film your private parts and then they can decide where you fit in.
I seriously hope you mean this as a joke.
Not for much longer at this rate, submit ID for verification
Knowing that he loved coke and alcohol at this time makes this hairstyle make sense.
You hope that men will recognize that this is a space not meant for them (which is often explicitly stated in the post body) and respectfully not comment. And those men that do comment but are respectful get politely asked not to comment again. And those men that comment and are rude or disrespectful get banned.
And some men do fly under the radar but a surprising number feel the need to start their comment with “As a man…”.
Please present yourself to JK Rowling’s TERF Inspection Booth /s
Ask the UK government
With difficulty, as demonstrated here.
most of these guys are self identifying…
That’s a bit of an overreaction.
“The rules are clearly presented”
WRONG! Posts show up in aggregate lists. You know, like the main page of lemmy instances. Where individual community rules do not appear at all if someone clicks on the post directly. I bet a significant amount of the time, people do not even realize which community they’re replying to posts in.
Don’t like it? Maybe Lemmy needs a way to either remove communities from standard aggregate lists, or to force a popup of community rules when a post is navigated to for a first time viewer that hasn’t even seen the community page. Then I’d totally understand being pissed off at first time rule violators.
There’s no way to “force” anything, different clients are going to behave however they like. Maybe if you need that level of control the Fediverse isn’t the right platform to begin with.
Hey, it’s not my desire to have a wholly separate space for a subsection of the community… It’s not my fault OP doesn’t understand the consequences of public message boards. I’m just suggesting ideas that might get closer to their desired mixed reality.
Obviously if they want to do it correctly, it’d have to be something like a separate women-only instance with approved joins. Then they’d be able to facilitate a space where undesirables cannot post.
Why aren’t people checking what community they’re about to participate in? That feels like it ought to be standard behaviour
It feels that way to you. Not everyone shares your opinion
Because it’s unnecessary in almost all cases. So far there is only one community which forbids people to comment based on who they are, but otherwise the rules boil down to standard acceptable behavior according to common sense. It’s also a nuisance for users: I am quite sure nobody wants to click several times and be derailed to check rules (on mobile) for every comment they want to write in every post they see on a feed. If this would be expected as standard behavior, I would guess even less interactions will happen.
Knowing which community isn’t the same as being familiar with that community’s rules. Most are going to assume if they see it they can respond in some sort of “normal” fashion. Banning an entire subsection that can still see the community by rule only is asking to have a difficult to enforce rule. Complaining that a difficult to enforce rule is difficult is … a major lack of self-awareness.
Knowing which bin isn’t the same as being familiar with that bin’s rules. Most are going to assume if they see it they can dispose of waste in some sort of “normal” fashion. Banning an entire subsection that can still fit in the bin by rule only is asking to have a difficult to enforce rule. Complaining that a difficult to enforce rule is difficult is … a major lack of self-awareness.
~A person who throws food waste in the recycle
There is a MASSIVE difference between a bin with an entirely different color and/or receptacle and just another community thread.
Nice irrelevant strawman, though.
There’s not. You sound exactly like people who try to justify throwing garbage in a recycling bin
Wrong and dumb
You don’t even understand your own analogy. Genuinely, pathetic.
no u
The rules are not clearly presented when you’re just scrolling through a generic AllPost feed. I’ve almost commented to one of these just the other day before realizing at the last second what community it was.
Also, when you’re discussing men, especially negatively, and expect men to not jump in to defend themselves, that’s a bit naive to think they’ll stay out of it. Some of those threads can get really echo chamber and dogpile feeling.
And people would be throwing a shit fit if the genders were reversed here. I’m sure there are some bitter people out there that don’t like the double standard. There seems to be a lot of overgeneralization where the bad behavior of a select few gets broadly painted onto the entire gender. This, again, has a double standard of being an acceptable thing to do, to the point that even within this thread someone is mocking others for pointing out “not all men” as a response.
Based on the comments here and in the previous similar post I have seen, the vast, vast majority of people (presumably men) highlight how this is a problem of visibility of posts in public feeds.
It’s a tradeoff between having the community public for discoverability and accepting that many people will not check the rules and violate them, some inadvertently.
The alternative is to make the community private, and accept that women will need to discover a women-relates community by searching for “women”, which doesn’t seem incredibly unlikely.
From the sentiments I read, most people wouldn’t care at all if the community was private and wouldn’t have a desire to “invade” it. I definitely feel part of this group.
Considering that it’s in the interest of the community (apparently) to have only women, I think it’s fair to expect the (minimal) effort from future members to look for it (plus advertising it in posts etc.) on them instead of expecting the vast majority of the users (the fediverse is mostly males) to add friction and having to check the rules of every single community of every post they open (now it might be a community, more might come). Yes, community rules are important, but being realistic, if you don’t behave like an asshole you don’t need to worry about them in 99% of the times.
However, if this tradeoff is not deemed acceptable, I think there is no point complaining about people “invading” women spaces because it’s guaranteed that many people will comment without reading the rules, as I am sure the almost totality of users does all the time. Even without counting the ones who intentionally violate the rule, there is always going to be an organic amount of people who will do so inadvertently.
At this point I think the tradeoff is so clear, that discussing the topic in such a confrontational way looks more like rage-bait than anything aimed at solving the problem.
Say I’m a trans female. Can I post then? Trans man? Gay man? Gay woman?
It’s self policing. If they’re being obnoxious or killing the environment or culture of the space, downvote/block/report and move on.
the rules are obvious, and trans inclusive.
if it wasnt for the sheer volume of [presumed] idiots who cant seem to follow those rules i wouldnt have posted. the points is the reports and heavy moderation required.
its like digital mansplaining
So you decide to ragepost in a different community that had nothing to do with it? This community is for asking questions, and it’s pretty clear you’re just phrasing things as a question so you can rage and troll without getting the boot
People in general want to be included and some even more so when they’re told they’re not allowed in.
It’s easy when it’s a physical space, ropes and security keep the riff raff out. With online spaces, it requires active moderation, mods who are willing to enforce the rules and ban those that violate them.
the rules are clearly presented. either youre not paying attention or youre just an asshole who purposefully throws their opinion in a place explicitly not wanting it.
what the fuck is wrong with you guys?
The same as with those women wanting to get in this men space? I wonder…
More seriously, you ask a legit question (as it would be legit if it was a man asking why some women so badly want to join in men-only spaces), a question that could trigger an interesting discussion, but why does it have to be so fucking angry? (See how poorly it passes?)
It’s not immediately obvious when it appears in your feed, I also don’t think people expect to be excluded due to protected characteristics. I know I wouldn’t have expected a community to discriminate.
Man here, there have been several times when I have found a thread talking about men and shitting all over all men and painting with broad strokes, claiming that we are all awful and just looking to use women.
I feel offended at indirectly being included in a group like that, and have joined in discussions in the past to try and explain that we are not all terrible people.
Over time however, I have learned to ignore the hate spewers and just move on.
Personally, if I see a community where the rules are politely explaining the situation, I just block the community out of respect for the xommunity.
Yeah I blocked it too, but it probably sucks for new users that are just commenting on posts they see because they are popular
Those people hate people who come in and say “not all men.” They will say that it’s obvious they are not talking about all men. They don’t feel like they should make the disclaimer. We have the complaints about “not all men” men here in this very thread.
But what are you going to do? That’s just how women are.
That’s just how women are.
I chuckled.
I mean, not all women, obviously. Shouldn’t have to be said.
Those “Women ☕” and “Men ☕” people are the worst
(for those that don’t get it, it’s the type of comment you get from people generalizing, discriminating and just being sexist)
