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Not to defend RFK, but this argument is dumb.
People from everywhere it doesn’t natively grow developed cancer long before they had access to tobacco. That doesn’t prove tobacco use doesn’t cause cancer, it just means it isn’t the only potential cause.
That’s because cancer is a category of diseases, not a single one. Specific types of cancer that are caused by smoking are caused by smoking (there is afaik 12 of those, and some are associated with prolonged inhalation of any smoke, and some are only tabaco-related, but it doesn’t matter)
Also I’m pretty sure paracetamol has been around for about 150 years or more.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406
Findings In this population-based study, models without sibling controls identified marginally increased risks of autism and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) associated with acetaminophen use during pregnancy. However, analyses of matched full sibling pairs found no evidence of increased risk of autism (hazard ratio, 0.98), ADHD (hazard ratio, 0.98), or intellectual disability (hazard ratio, 1.01) associated with acetaminophen use.
Paracetamol, what you lot call acetaminophen, was first synthesized in 1877(or maybe much earlier in 1852). It wasnt widely used until the 1950s. Tylenol is a brand name that means fuck all to any conversation.
It means a lot to the company that owns the Tylenol brand. People would be fools not to try suing.
No, you see he said “asseattomanefin” first. So, its totally fine…
Hang on, I’ve got Assetto Corsa’s lawyers on the phone…
There’s no time or resources in the world to debunk all the bullshit this people generate. Every day, all the time…
“Firehose of falsehoods” is the term, i believe.
Looks like those elite bastards are going to make some good old creaky stock market money off of their Tylenol lies.
Just because something already exists, doesn’t mean it can’t be also caused by something else. Like canser. It already exists. But smoking can cause it too.
Next to that, it’s paracetamol. It predates the discovery/naming of autism. It’s already proven not to be the cause by other studies. Of course these studies could have been wrong, but I highly doubt that.
So this statement is incorrect. Doesn’t change the fact that I don’t believe a word of either Trump or RFK. I still believe science and I still don’t believe pseudoscience.
There’s proof it’s NOT caused by paracetamol?
You actually believe their bullshit 😂 fucken sheep
That’s not modern science works. The “modern” scientific method (as in post-medieval) requires you to have a positive hypothesis that you can test (as in disprove). Starting with a negative statement doesn’t work in this system. Maybe here we are witnessing the birth of a new scientific system or this administration is so backwards that they rewinding all the way to pre-Galilean times.
See the other comments. Someone linked to the studies stating there was no link found.
Autism was differentiated from Schizophrenia?
Yes even though they have entirely different traits people are stupid and they used the term schizophrenia as a catch all for anything that was seen as “abnormal”.
Nowadays it’s a little better, not as much as one might think, autism is the bucket term now, but I’ll try to give some better definitions.
Autism is a condition in which people lack in the more normal modes of thinking, and also social skills. Autists tend to have a few symptoms.
-Great difficulty in socializing
-High levels of sensitivity and high levels of neuroticism. (Don’t like being touched, don’t like their things being touched to a very high degree)
-A lack of common sense
-Often they fixate on a specific thing or set of things they really like, while they lack in general skills.
-They in some cases have difficulty understanding what people mean when they say stuff in social contexts, and often can understand specific things really well.
Schizophrenia
-They often have trouble staying awake fully in every part of their brain, leading to hallucinations in waking life.
-They often cannot understand allegory or metaphor really well, (they believe figures of speech to be literal) they can only understand something like religion as literal, not metaphorical.
-Schizophrenia tends to be a degenerative brain disease, where most people develop it between 29-35, and it usually worsens over life and their intelligence tends to drop faster than most adults.
-Schizophrenics tend to be antisocial, but not really by preference as much as autists. Which is one of the main differences. Schizophrenia is a degenerative brain disease where autism isn’t really degenerative or anything and autists tend to be much more antisocial but not paranoid and stuff.
-Schizophrenics tend to have extreme paranoia, and also they see patterns where there are none.
Schizophrenia is definitely the worst, and autism isn’t really bad in many cases. People can have a perfectly healthy and happy life with autism but schizophrenia is extremely destructive to people.
Both of these have almost no single known cause. Schizophrenia is thought to be highly genetic but a combination of many genes. Autism is less understood.
The first people who did a nature vs nurture study on schizophrenia discovered a new condition, that many of the family members of schizophrenia had, called schizotypal syndrome many of these people, although nearly perfectly healthy, tended to be weird, and also a bit antisocial. They had a great deal of superstition and fixations. They often were just weird though. Their house would smell weird. They would have odd colors. Things like this. It is thought that this is a precursor to schizophrenia. In cases where people just have schizotypal syndrome, this can be thought of as a case where diversity usually wins out in evolutionary terms. A diverse set of mental creatures is nearly always going to win over a very homogenous group of mental creatures, yet sometimes too many of these phenotypes end up in one child, and the neurodegenerativness might come from lifestyles factors associated with highly schizotypal living. (Taking lots of medicine, believing everything they hear on TV, like medication is safe to take when pregnant) Which most people would just understand as incorrect. Bad diet from poverty due to being weird. Having too many germs and mold in their house because they are scared of burglars so they are afraid to open the windows. Things like this.
Schizophrenia tends to still be a bit of a bucket term, and autism as well, but these are far better defined these days. The reason they are most likely on the rise is because of less real food, with nutrients, more poverty, and highly stressful modern lifestyles, and also many people spend a lot of time around manmade and synthetic materials in childhood vs spending time in nature, which can help the immune system learn to function correctly. Most germs in nature aren’t very dangerous to humans, because they haven’t evolved specific traits to infect humans. So your immune system has a strong advantage over these germs.
So if you don’t want your kids to develop these conditions, air your house out sometimes, let them play in nature, feed them high quality food, and keep their stress low, and make sure they have enough free time so that they can sleep at night. Also don’t take medication while you are pregnant unless you absolutely have too. People should know this without someone telling them this. Don’t take antibiotics unless you have a specific germ infection where it’s worth the tradeoff.
The immune system also likely plays a role in these conditions. Having a healthy immune system isn’t just about defense against pathogens, but also your own epigenetic regulation. Having a weak or overly reactive immune system will lead to autism like symptoms or schizophrenia type symptoms if your immune system. Neurons have very complex and idiosyncratic protein structures and if your immune system isn’t functioning correctly, your brain will get full of trash or overly washed out by your immune system.since it cannot manage your brain proteins correctly. So get an outside dog they help keep healthy germs so long as they are healthy, spend time in nature, eat wild fruit. Dont spend every hour of your life inside or around humans and all their germs. Try to practice germ hygiene around humans, don’t fear nature’s germs. They can’t really hurt you if your immune system is working correctly, where humans spread all kinds of human specific pathogens that can sometimes infect you even if your immune system is healthy, although this is harder, because your immune system knows your own germs and evolves your germs to be specific to your body.
Tylenol is just a paracetamol brand name in the US. TIL
I was kinda shocked when I learnt this. Like finding out that Digestive biscuits were called Graham crackers.
Their origin is a pretty interesting read too.
Neben Acetylsalicylsäure, Ibuprofen oder Diclofenac ist Paracetamol einer der häufigsten Wirkstoffe in Präparaten, die gegen Fieber und Schmerzen eingesetzt werden. Paracetamol wirkt im Gegensatz zu diesen nicht entzündungshemmend.
Ah.
Yep it’s just Paracetamol (aka Acetaminophen depending on your locality). Always buy the generic, it’s the same shit in a less flashy box.
puts on logic glasses
Oh look, another brilliant mind discovered that autism was identified before Tylenol existed, so obviously Tylenol can’t cause autism. That’s like saying cancer existed before radiation therapy, therefore radiation can’t cause cancer. Peak necessity/sufficiency confusion right here - apparently conditions can only have one cause and medical recognition equals temporal origin.
But hey, let’s ignore that Swedish study of 2.5 million kids that found zero causal link when they actually controlled for confounding variables using sibling comparisons. Or those other high-quality studies that show the association completely disappears once you account for genetics and family environment. Who needs actual science when you have timeline gotchas?
Meanwhile pregnant women might avoid the safest pain reliever available because some politician decided to manufacture outrage for political points. But at least someone gets to feel intellectually superior about their logical fallacy meme.
🐱
You’re not wrong. But my guess is that “autism predates Tylenol” is probably gonna convince more people than “large controlled study done by the Swiss”. People are generally really ignorant
How on earth is that a thing? Do Americans just read the first two letters of a name and then give up?
I mean, as an Austrian I get the confusion between Austria and AustrALia (emphasis added so that Americans can also see it), but SwEDEN vs SwISS is just wild.
You Australians are so like the Austrians though. /s
G’day mate. Put another shrimp on the barbie
Am I doing this right?
Paracetamol predates autism, the meme is wrong. It refers to a random brand, not the substance
Hmm, i don’t like your tone, but you are correct. ASD has a heritability greater than 80% which is higher than blood pressure and the same as human height. It’s a genetic disorder.
Also, when was it necessary to differentiate ASD from schizophrenia? The age of onset of schizophrenia is around 18-21 and autism is present practically from birth (apparent 1-3 years). I think OP is wrongly interpreting the Kraepelinian dichotomy which is about bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.
@meowmeowbeanz@sopuli.xyz is totally right. The meme is based on a wrong premise.
It claims that Autism was a known thing in 1911 (true), and that Tylenol was created in 1955 (misleading since the active ingredient, Paracetamol was created in 1878 and was in wide use before the brand Tylenol was created). Then it implies that the argument is that Tylenol is the only cause of Autism and then poses that as a contradiction.
Logically, that’s like claiming that some People died in 1700, and that the Ford Model T was only created in 1908 and then claiming that thus it’s nonsense that cars can kill people.
On the one hand it ignores that the active ingredient of the medication was in use far earlier than that one random brand showing up, and on the other hand it claims that the argument with Tylenol and Autism is that every single case of Autism happens due to Tylenol, which pretty much nobody is claiming.
So the meme is just wrong on many levels.
So instead of making up and disproving a lie, why not use actual science? There’s overwhelming scientific evidence that Paracetamol has no effect on Autism.
One might say that this doesn’t really sway those who choose to ignore science in favour of their own gut feelings, but on the other hand, does a fallacious lie sway them?
I think we can agree the meme is terrible and misleading.
I guess we can.
Well, the OP’s argument becomes nil when it’s based on such a basic fallacy, I mean c’mon. Temporal precedence ≠ causal impossibility.
And since autism-as-symptom existed in 1911 but autism-as-disorder wasn’t differentiated until later, the meme’s temporal logic becomes even more meaningless. lol
🐱🐱🐱🐱
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The statements of the meme are in mathematical form
A≠B B≠C
Therfore A≠C
which is not necessarily true and what @meowmeowbeanz is referring too.
deleted by creator
This reads like a grok reply lol
Conveniently, this mostly affects the pain management of people giving birth. Almost as if they don’t care about them too much. Makes you wonder.
Or they WANT them to feel pain. These people are psychopaths. It’s usually best to assume the worst possible motivations for their actions.
Or they WANT them to feel pain.
In their myths, a woman who explicitly incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong strayed from absolute mindless obedience to sky daddy, so all women have to suffer forever, and anything that reduces that suffering is inherently evil for opposing the will of sky daddy.
I only buy generic brand medications, so my kids are at risk of generic brand autism. Is this going to be a signifier of a low income upbringing when they reach adulthood?
Should I switch to name brand Tylenol for their future?
Yes, like Lego bricks Vs generic ones, the autism from those has higher fault tolerances
yeah your children are gonna get that non-specific autistic enterocolitis that wakefield warned about, sorry
Listen I know the RFK claim is nonsense but that doesn’t excuse faulty logic. This is like saying cancer existed before X so X can’t be a carcinogen.
There are many countries worldwide that use a fraction of this drug compared to the US. Americans eat them like candy. Regardless, there is no difference in incidence of autism.
There is some data to suggest there may be a link.
However. The data is very limited. Mt sinai did a meta of 46 studies and found a link (not necessarily causal). A Swedish population study of like 2.5 million children found no link. Etc.
The modest increase that could exist is unclear and confounded. Is it Tylenol or is something that the Tylenol is being taken for? Eg if the mom is having frequent headaches or fevers is the underlying condition impacting development and making it look like Tylenol does?
But why?
Two big answers:
Kenvue (Tylenol manufacturer) is not exactly a “pharmaceutical giant”. They’re a much easier target for rfk to go after with much less in terms of resources. They absolutely will sue though and appear to be preparing to do so though. But going after vaccines (his big target), especially stuff like Covid vaccines, means going after real pharmaceutical giants. Moderna, Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, etc. deeeeeep pockets and serious legal teams. This may be a fight he feels he can “win” to start gaining momentum and precedent.
IMO the bigger reason is political capital. He has a large following of desperate parents that want an answer for why their child has autism or intellectual disability. I know a lot of people on here are like “autism is a superpower” and that’s great but these people are stuck in the disability mindset. It’s also important to remember that autism is a broad spectrum. Some of these parents have children that are nonverbal, that can’t toilet or shower independently, that get extremely violent when frustrated, that need 24/7 assistance and will never live independently. Of course some of them are just frustrated that their otherwise fine kid isn’t “normal” enough but that’s a whole other frustrating thing.
They’re desperate for answers. The reality of the situation is that there isn’t a simple answer. The overwhelming evidence suggests a combination of factors: genetics, environmental, social and behavioral. But this is unsatisfying. I’ve worked with people on this for years and when you say “it’s probably a combination of factors” they are never happy with that. They want something to blame. This is the political capital. He is giving them that. Basically everyone has taken Tylenol within the past year. Most pregnant women will take Tylenol at some point for discomfort, pain, fever, etc.
Now they will not only have the answer to “what did this”, they will have him as a person to hold up as the savior who gave them the answer. I saw the same thing happen when I started around 2010. Even though it was years after it happened people still attached to Wakefield and were so grateful he gave them the explanation that it was the MMR vaccine. They’d “protect their other children” as a result by not vaccinating them. Didn’t matter if you pointed out Wakefields proven financial links to an alternative MMR vaccine, the retraction of the paper, him getting his medical license revoked, etc. That’s how desperate they are for answers. FWIW Wakefield is still super rich and got married to literal supermodels so that’s why he doubled down and probably a major factor in why rfk is doing the same
The point of picking Tylenol is so Trump can say he fixed autism, like the war between Aberbiajan and Albania.
Given the overwhelming number of well structured studies showing no relationship, the meta analysis that potentially, may, if you quint and really try to bend the light to see it in a certain way, is simply too far away to have any meaningful value.
This is bad reasoning. For one the mt Sinai meta is not poorly structured. For two there’s not exactly an “overwhelming number” of contrary studies. For three there’s a number of studies besides the mt Sinai study. You dismiss the meta on lack of merit without actually examining it and place it against fantastical papers (that may or may not exist, and as mentioned the quantity of which is being exaggerated)
In addition to the mt Sinai paper 2 other similar papers came out in 2025 (one from Harvard, one from environmental health) showing a link. There’s also the danish birth study which showed a link between Tylenol and a specific presentation of autism (hyperkinetic symptoms, closer to adhd).
Papers to the contrary aren’t necessarily “overwhelming” either, there’s 3-4 metas recently that show no causal link and the big one is the Swedish birth study I referenced in the initial post. But that’s countered by the above metas and the danish birth study.
Therein lies the issue and why it’s a point of debate. RFK is wrong to do what he is doing because the data is not strong enough to make the bold claim that he is making. He is a charlatan and likely scamming somehow (perhaps to sell folinic acid, which also has spurious data for efficacy). However, on the same point to reject the potential of Tylenols impact entirely because RFK is interested in it as a potential causal factor is equally foolish. It could be a factor. We don’t know yet. It needs more exploration. This could increase funding to explore it potentially (which could be a total waste of time).
IMO you should probably listen to the mt Sinai paper, which recommends that you take Tylenol if necessary during pregnancy as “untreated maternal fever and pain pose risks such as neural tube defects and preterm birth” and ultimately recommends a balanced approach limiting Tylenol exposure, eg try not to take tons of it
My job and my team are expertis in clinical evidence within the UK. If the ABPI recognise our views, I think we’re good enough here.
Do you have any idea how common it is to give people, even kids, Tylenol?
I’m not looking up their meta, but I suspect it’s as informative as the meta that shows a “link” between autism and vaccines.
Might as well investigate a link between Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or wearing clothes.
Yes, I touched upon this towards the end of my (admittedly lengthy) post. Also, it’s not “their” meta. It’s a meta done by mt Sinai and Harvard (eg done with rigor) which openly admits the link cannot be established as causal because, as stated, there are many confounding factors to consider
Yeah, acetaminophen is like the most common painkiller and fever reducer. They make syrup versions of it you can give to children. And, uh, suppositories for babies that are too small for the syrup.
I know youre just speaking for example but just so anyone reading knows if a baby is that small please call a doctor as you should not be treating them with otc meds. Fever or significant discomfort in the first two months is potentially a real big deal and should always be evaluated by a physician
That’s also true. I don’t remember mine having any fever or significant discomfort beyond colics in the first months. Teething is when the pain started so like 2 or 3 months in IIRC. Then we definitely had to break out the stuff once or twice. Ex said she asked the doc for advice with that but who knows, she wasn’t exactly honest about anything ever. If she says the sky is blue, I’m going to triple check it at this point. Luckily I have a very healthy and happy baby, barely ever has a fever or complains about anything besides hunger and sleepiness.
I always turn these around and ask given the study size, what is the confidence interval of the number of autism diagnoses attributable to Tylenol?
Often the number is surprisingly low given the other factors (and frequently uncontrolled confounders.)
Not only that. But the sheer number of kids who didn’t develop autism but had Tylenol (or the vaccines! Same shit different goat.)
Like, most kids in the US had Tylenol. Most kids don’t develop autism. Other things most kids are exposed to: going outside. Going inside. Having a pb&j. Wearing clothing. Eating ice cream. The incidence of going to McDonald’s for soft serve and being told the machine is broke.
It’s patently ridiculous, and even if there’s a correlation, it’s pretty clear something else is going on, and you don’t have to be a physician to see that.
Like, most kids in the US had Tylenol. Most kids don’t develop autism.
Except the claim being studied is that Tylenol might cause autism when administered to the mother while pregnant. There are a lot of drugs that will cause a problem to a fetus when administered to a pregnant woman, but do not cause that problem when administered to someone outside the womb. Building a human from scratch is a fiddly process.
Tylenol is a brand. Acetominophen was created in 1878 (or 1852, depending on who you ask).
e: That doesn’t make RFKJr not wrong and insane, in case it needed saying.
Do you think RFK knows this?
Over half of Americans read at a 6th-grade level or lower and our President speaks at a 4th-grade level. How many you suppose know Tylenol and acetaminophen are the same thing?
It’s on the box.
Look at the elitist over here that knows how to read : P
I never learned and you can’t make me.
Just wait till they hear what big pharma is doing with paracetamol
I could totally see acetaminophen makers rebranding with a “new” paracetamol
lol my guess is like 70% of people in the us don’t know what acetaminophen or paracetamol are, so Tylenol could just come out with Lonelyt Extra Stength and bam, sales
Wasn’t ibuprofen what they were blaming? Or did they switch to acetaminophen?
Edit: just saw the Trump clip, now it’s acetaminophen’s fault, lmao. Funny how it’s something that’s actually safe to take for pain during pregnancy, because of course they can never pass up a chance at making women suffer
I only ever saw Tylenol.
Not to mention, this doesnt prove tylenol doesnt cause cancer, it just proves that tylenol isnt the only cause of cancer.
Obv it doesnt, but this argument is just bad.
you fucked the argument lol
He is absolutely insane
You’re telling not to take medical advice from a crackhead??? Nah that can’t be it…
