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I’ve been using a combination of Google and Microsoft office products since forever, I’d love to switch, but I really don’t understand where the hell I’m supposed to go. I can’t really self-host (I only have a phone and laptop that I use as mobile devices) and I’d really like to not have to actively think about how my email works when I’m using it. I was sort of hoping Proton would be it, but they just keep sucking harder and harder, they don’t seem like a viable alternative anymore.
Does anyone here have some advice?
The only other secure location I have heard is Tuta Mail but I have seen reports that they also use AI with their source code but the difference between Tuta Mail and Proton is that Tuta Mail hasn’t pushed their devs so hard or called them losers for worrying about security issues. I think the biggest complaint right now about Proton is the fact that their CEO doesn’t respect his people and is chasing money instead of taking care of the non-profit and their securty minded customers. If you’re just looking for an email that just doesn’t scan your stuff with AI and things like that, Port87.com might suit your needs.
Go Home (selfhost) never Go Big.
It will be impossible to trust this company again until Yen and the rest of the C-suite resign.
I’m slowly trying to degoogle. Mail is a big concern for me. I have a google business account to handle a few domains. I used a small shared host before and it was crap. Every couple months they’d make some change and all my shit broke. I switched to Google because I knew it would be reliable and largely set and forget. It’s been that. I hate Google though. So if not proton, then who?
I think Tuta and mailbox.org are generally recommended, but I use Posteo which has been fine
Tuta is not everyones fave right now, look at my history for details…I havent followed up on everything yet but I thought the same as you.
https://lemmy.ml/post/53619601/28192074
This seems like a pretty good breakdown.
I’m testing out tuta and infomaniak. Since I don’t care all that much about encryption, infomaniak is looking good, in my opinion.
I don’t have any fancy use-cases but Posteo has been good for me too.
+1 for posteo
I can recommend mailbox.org
And you can get random junk emails that expire. Great for signing up to rando websites
I mean that should be a must have for private email services
Tuta uses walled garden closed source apps. Posteo does not support custom domains unless you do something like addy.io. Mailbox.org does encryption at rest but your client needs to support pgp to use it. They all have their drawbacks.
Personally I’ve started to move from proton to mailbox.org with addy.io for custom domains and aliases. Once it’s solid I’m moving addy.io to self hosted
Posteo does not support custom Domains, because it’s unsafe and inherently complicated to use with all the security settings of a modern email system turned on
Just looked into posteo. Great pricing (1 euro/month?) and they’ve got encryption. And organic vegetarian lunches!
The important part is to not put all of your eggs in one basket. This makes it so you can migrate off of one at a time rather than your entire life at once.
Ye, I’m finding that with Google. You don’t realize how tightly locked in you are until you try to leave.
A counterpoint though, is that putting 12 eggs into different baskets means having to manage 12 baskets. It’s a trade off
It is a trade off, but it’s well worth it, since most of it requires no actual maintenance (after you migrate of course) unless you have to leave for some reason.
Try Fastmail, you will be impressed
After using Tuta for a year and not really enjoying the experience I surveyed the landscape and picked Fastmail. I adore it.
It being in a five eyes country will certainly earn it some strikes against it among the privacy crowd, however.
Email is inherently unsafe. Privacy advocates know this. But we all still need it for managing accounts and such.
Any provider just reliably “doing email” and not actively harming its users in some way is going to look pretty good to most of us.
Email is something we simply cannot live without. They are primary sources of communication to reach you like account notifications, what accounts you’ve registered with it and vice versa.
It is unfortunate, but that is indeed the case.
Which is why I said:
But we all still need it for managing accounts and such.
Mailo.com. It’s ugly as 2005 websites but it just works. You get IMAP, family accounts. It’s just email. Old and reliable french company.
it may not be “beautiful” by what passes as “modern design” but i think it’s great, just the way it is. it’s the modern full page “responsive” scroll til you die shit designed for small screens that suck ass.
First time I’ve seen Mailo recommended, thanks for sharing. Does it support custom domains? And have you had any issues making accounts using a Mailo address?
No issues. I only use custom domains for years to be independent and they support it. Also they have nice ways for kids accounts with moderation of what’s getting into your kid inbox.
Except of shit web design that i don’t use, all works just fine. IMAP, caldav and so on. I’m super happy.
Cool, thanks for the follow-up. I think I’ll give them a go based on your experience, appreciate it! :)
I moved over to Tuta personally for email. And Tuta is EU-based if that matters to you. If you use other Proton features there are alternatives there as well.
For Proton Pass and Authenticator, there’s Bitwarden (and self-hosted Vaultwarden). Which supports password storage, 2FA codes, and Passkeys across basically all devices. Also supports SSH agent forwarding if you work with that a lot.
For Proton Drive, Koofr seems to be a good option for cloud storage, also EU-hosted. They also have an additional locally-encrypted Vault for files you want additional security on. Things like 2FA bypass codes you get when you set up your accounts but don’t want want hanging around in the open at all.
Here’s Lemmy’s reply from yesterday triggered by the same concern:
https://lemmy.world/post/53735981
Gmail was actually the easiest one to separate from, if you just count the transferring email addresses. It is a pain in the ass because so many services fight like hell to hold onto your google account you sometimes have to jump through hoops to remove it–a security risk in itself.
The big sticking point for me so far is photos… there are other options, but itś all integrated into my phone in weird ways I don’t want to bother with right now.
GMail is not that easy. Because, there are places and services that use e-mail clients that are easy to be sent to and received by GMail. I’ve experienced this with ProtonMail for a while, where there’ll be services and individuals that could not reach me through my Proton e-mail and I’ve had difficulty reaching out to them.
I did a pretty deep dive for my company recently. We are very data-privacy centric. Here was my Lemmy post on it: https://lemmy.world/post/51963153
Some of the items there are mentioned here, but after the evaluation, my hunch was correct and we are likely switching to https://runbox.com/
Good service, pricing, privacy focused but not so much that you need to host your own proxy like with Proton, and runs sustainably.
I’ve been pretty happy with Purelymail.
same. i started migrating to proton. and have my own domains. but use them through prot. now with this horsecrap i gotta get a third thing going… and migrate there. :/
mailfence is pretty good so far. very basic but there are nice clients for IMAP these days
i can’t get mail from some places to mailfence. sending is fine. no errors with the connection. no bounces. senders have looked at their logs, they’re fine. mail is sent. it is received. mailfence just loses it somewhere before it makes it to my inbox and they won’t help with anything at all. so i gave up with them.
I like Migadu. You must bring your own domain and you can add as many separate accounts as you want
Depending what you need and want, I can highly recommend posteo.de and while they are not as polished and use standard DAV, it works absolutely flawless, they are relatively cheap, based in German and have certifications for all kinds of security.
If you want something like Google Workplace, get a Nextcloud. Still not as polished, but open and if you want to change the provider, you can just do so. I recommend a combination of Nextcloud and Posteo.
And if you need a custom domain with everything bundled together, I can recommend xaweho.de. though they are not cheap…
iCloud does the trick and would work on google devices
if you’re already invested in apple devices, icloud for email is definitely worth the look. it’s often overlooked for that; hell, a lot of apple users don’t even realize it can do email.
I’ll continue to use ProtonMail myself. But, I can’t in good conscience feel in reason to support this company with my money and I’m especially concerned with relying on ProtonVPN so that will be getting uninstalled.
This is just not how you win people over and I’m tired of this day and age in tech where companies like this, pad their PR up with promises then do a 180 on their attitude towards everyone who uses their products that makes everyone second guess them. It’s bad enough we have things like Discord who has spent a couple years, making themselves look good and cozy for the public market that have alienated its userbase.
Bluesky showing their true colors and then we have this asshole CEO on Proton taking a dump whenever he pleases on the values of why we bothered using Proton in the first place.
iVPN is a good alternative. What concerns me is his disregard for proper security review of AI generated code, because that is one of the stupidest things a company focused on security and privacy can do. Even if one has no issue with his previous remarks about Trump, this new one is legitimately a security issue that affects the product itself.
You are right. He will try again one day in some shape or form. But it‘s still nice to see a backlash with cancellations can make a difference. Teaches us that we should keep trying to change things for the better or stop changes that make things worse for us.
Is that especially likely? he’s one of the founders afaik, I think they all are
He has to go and the Proton workers have to form a union.
Every worker at every tech company needs to unionize.
Every worker at every company needs to unionise.
Every worker needs to unionize.
Every union needs to unionize.
Every union needs a state (protecting its interests and preferably under control of these worker associations)
So, a union?
deleted by creator
Every worker at every
techcompany needs to unionize.FTFY
Or we just need to drop Proton. Why is the first reaction to reform a company?
If anything, the workers should band together to form a new, more flat organization (esp., coop)
Edit: just want to add, that “made in Switzerland” does not make a company a fair or good company.
In one exchange, an employee in the company’s security Slack channel urged Proton to at least take a few days to pentest newly written code before pushing it live. “That’s bullshit and loser thinking. Of course it’s possible to be fast and secure,” Yen wrote in the channel at the end of August. “Stop thinking always of how to be slower, and focus more on how to be faster.” Yen added, “stop lovingly handcrafting all our code and use AI more.”
Yikes, this Yen guy seems really charming
stop lovingly handcrafting all our code
I guess they’re headquartered in Switzerland, but have American values. It’s a shame, because having privacy engineered like a Swiss watch makes a lot of sense.
Remember, this is the same guy who, last year, posted an explicitly pro-Republican Tweet on the official Proton account, and then backtracked and tried to say they were apolitical. In his excuses, he used the extremely right-wing coded phrase “triggered” in a way that perfectly matched the way right-wingers use the term, and when called out for that he claimed he was “unaware that triggered is offensive” because “I don’t live in the US so I really don’t have ready a list of words people are not allowed to use”. Some very right-winger-complains-about-cancel-culture–coded language right there, and an excuse that falls apart the moment you realise that it would require being in tune with right-wing language enough to have used “triggered” accurately in the first place, that his complaints simply don’t work.
His words are aggressively out of touch, but I will say that I agree somewhat. I tried going back to handcrafting code for a bit and it really does feel slow. Like, “absolutely no way to compete in the current market” slow.
Slow has nothing to do with pen testing or not. Pen testing is how you validate that the code is secure, AI or no. This is showing a shocking lack of care about security for a company pretending to offer a secure product.
Best of all, that really is something LLMs are quite good at too. Aikido has a feature where you whitebox pentest your entire application.
Without the entire slack exchange, it’s not clear whether Andy Yen was responding exclusively to the call for pentesting, or towards broader comments about AI code.
Look I’ll be honest, a CEO telling his workers their (valid) opinions are bullshit and looser thinking is absolutely unacceptable, even putting the context of security (or lack thereof) aside. If you refuse to listen to your engineers as a leadership, you have failed miserably.
“bullshit and loser thinking” would be inappropriate wording even if the opinions were actually objectively wrong.
I also found the comments pretty inflammatory, which makes me wonder what the engineers had said to get the conversation to that point. I don’t like to make judgement without the full context
No matter the context, someone who can be baited into putting something this obviously unprofessional in writing is not a good leader.
Fair enough, I do agree it’s very unprofessional
Speed is not a good quantifier for industry success. Speed to market might get you some initial customers, but speed alone won’t keep them. If your product is junky, slow, and insecure you are going to lose those customers you had, and potentially open yourself up to lawsuits in the process.
The things that matter more to long term success and sustainability are all the things AI is not.
Proton Mail is already junky and slow yet I bought into the mission. I admit that I was fooled. Subscribed earlier this year until 2028, though, so I’ll be on this sinking ship for a while.
I never said speed was all that mattered. But from my experience, and my other friends in the industry, it is possible to achieve speed while maintaining quality. security, and maintainability. Because these are all things that the AI can look for too. Just look at how many vulnerabilities AI is finding nowadays. Just like any other product manager, you can bring up concerns, ask the AI to look into them, and validate the AI’s claims. Just like you would manage a team of engineers. Which is of course still faster than writing everything yourself.
If all you ask the AI to do is produce lines of code, that’s all it will do. But AI workflows can be far more complex than that.
The quote is talking about how the CEO is scoffing at an engineer asking for a few days for pentesting. None of that has to do with using or not using AI for coding. Doesn’t matter who wrote the code, the management of a privacy first company looking to cut corners on testing for buggy code is a no no for their customers.
Without the whole slack context, the pentesting comment might have been part of a whole chain of comments trying to discredit AI, and the CEO is trying to push for AI. I wouldn’t jump to saying the CEO is against pentesting in general until I had more information
What part of insulting people that wants to take it slow makes sense as a response to a chain of comments discrediting AI? You’re twisting your whole body trying to invent hypotheticals that doesn’t even make sense.
Why are you making yourself look foolish to defend a company you have no financial or personal connection to? Unless you actually do.
Recall that I already mentioned that his comments seemed aggressively out of touch. Insulting your engineers is a bad look.
However, I’m saying that he isn’t necessarily against pentesting, which is what some comments seem to be thinking. I would want to read the whole context to see if that’s what he really believes.
It only feels slow when everyone is forced to use AI, none of these companies have proven to operate at a profit yet
Huh? The frontier model companies aren’t operating at a profit but all the major enterprise tech companies (Google, Microsoft, Salesforce, Amazon, etc) are using huge amounts of AI in the SDLC and beyond and certainly are operating at a profit…
They’re operating at a profit because of their large legacy products, not because of their new stuff.
Example A: Google
Did you even see their earnings miss and what they attributed it to?
I’m not sure what you are trying to say, what difference does it make if the users of a product are profitable when the creator of said product isn’t, the users of AI make their money on a diversified portfolio of products, the AI companies are making no profits right now as the subscription prices they are charging are at a loss to gain market share, if they don’t find a sustainable profit margin over time they will have to shut down or increase the cost of the subscription so only a limited number of companies and individuals will be able to afford it. Either way the gushing AI inference taps will stop leaking so freely at some point.
Every single one of those companies reported negative free cash flow this quarter, and some have been running in the negative for a lot longer. The only tech company at that scale NOT losing money hand over fist is Apple, and they’re the only one not investing heavily in AI… but I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.
Microsoft and Salesforce both have very positive free cash flow… but in any case that isn’t profit. All 4 of the companies I listed are still very profitable (Alphabet/google being the one “exception” where they are still wildly profitable but down from q3 2024 vs q3 2026). But even in the Alphabet and Amazon cases, they have negative free cash flow because they are investing like crazy in AI. This doesnt mean they aren’t profitable it means they are using their historic performance to make a big bet on the future. This is fundamentally very different from the frontier lab companies who have never been profitable and are staying afloat mostly from cash injection from big tech (Anthropic is an interesting one that may have just turned the corner).
It’s fine to have moral, labor, or environmental objections to “AI” (which is a very stupid name for some specific applications of machine learning) but I would expect Lemmy to have a higher level of discourse around this stuff that is actually rooted in reality.
My job is not to be fast. This expectation of development speed is bosses not understanding why they hire specialists.
I code, make sure it works, is secure and maintainable. That’s how I own my work.
as mentioned in another comment, it’s possible to make it secure and maintainable if you manage AI properly. Managing AI is like a product manager managing a team. It’s up to you to push for security and maintainability, but AI can absolutely look for vulnerabilities and holes and code smells if you ask for it.
Yet somehow speed seems all that matters to c-suits.
Coming back to my point: slower ≠ worse.
Can AI speed things up? Oh, yes. Is it really better? It depends, but I’m leaning to no.I don’t think Andy Yen was saying that slower = worse, or that faster is all that matters. My read of the conversation is that engineers were pushing against AI saying that it makes code less secure and maintainable, and Andy was pushing back saying that’s not necessarily the case, that it’s possible to use AI to speed things up while maintaining quality.
In one exchange, an employee in the company’s security Slack channel urged Proton to at least take a few days to pentest newly written code before pushing it live. “That’s bullshit and loser thinking. Of course it’s possible to be fast and secure,” Yen wrote in the channel at the end of August. “Stop thinking always of how to be slower, and focus more on how to be faster.” Yen added, “stop lovingly handcrafting all our code and use AI more.”
There was a Lemmy post about a Proton employee providing more context for Andy’s statements: https://no.lastname.nz/post/4106893
sounds like a “you” problem
“skill issue” comments are rarely productive. I have many friends that also work in the industry that feel the same, even if they are against AI. I trust their opinions (and my own of course) over yours.
cool. trust your -20 down voted comment
EDIT - and wait, let’s clarify. I NEVER SAID “skill issue”. my implication wasn’t necessarily “it’s because you’re slow”, it was “good things take time”. have some patience.
LLMs erode normal human patience and skills. your skills will thank you for the time you invest.
EDIT 2 - I also work in the industry. you’ve probably used something I helped build. I’m telling you, with the experience to back it up, that you’re only hurting yourself and helping the ruling class.
You might be able to ship a codebase quicker but once it hits a certain level of complexity, you’ll have a codebase that no single human being on your team really understands. You’ll now be forever tied to an ever increasing AI subscription cost
which may still be worth it to secure a strong position in the market. You have to look at what competition Proton is facing (Google Workspace)
Hey, the next quarter’s profits is all that matters, eh?
In a capitalist society, yes pretty much. Andy Yen doesn’t have much control over that. As far as I see it, he’s just trying to provide a viable private alternative to Google workspace.
But this is exactly why this is so fucking stupid. Most people didn’t switch to proton because their suite is better than google performance or feature wise. The google apps work just fine. You switch exactly because google is an unethical shit company, that harvests your data on top… If proton adopts the same values why the fuck would I stay with them…
Proton is focused on privacy, anti-AI was not in their initial mission statement.
Near the start of the meeting, Yen said, “I want to acknowledge myself, personally, that there was a communication failure on my part and there are many things that probably could and should have been communicated differently, and this is something that I’ll have to reflect on and improve over time. So I will do that.”
“So what does that mean going forward? Going forward, I’m still going to push,” he added.
Uh. This news makes everything about 0% better.
“Claude, write an apology for me that blames miscommunication but still acknowledges that I will not meaningfully change my behavior at the heart of the issue.”
Brain dead CEO?! Tune in next week for more obvious news! 💀
Something about upper management just pushes people into being dicks. Maybe cause all they do is work? Even my grand-manager is quite blunt and out of touch. Guess that happens when all you do is micromanage others all day
I think its the opposite in that only dicks go into upper management
The further up the ladder you go the more importance is placed on numbers and metrics. Every meeting and every mandatory training is either about leadership decisions or some kind of numbers, be it profit, efficiency, budget or accidents. As a team lead you can still see the individuals you work with, but past that with 100+ people under you, even their health and safety gets reduced to numbers on a sheet.
It gets so ingrained in your brain that its nearly impossible to forget once you reach a point high enough where the shackles loosen a bit.
That doesn’t really excuse anyone from being an out of touch asshole though. You can still see people as people instead of numbers, it just takes more effort to do so.
of course, he will push. reflection and improve over time is part of his idea of slow-mode.
I like to think my plan cancellation last night helped. Now they gotta oust the CEO.
This was also the final straw for me, cancelled last night
I wish I ever used a product of theirs. so I could cancel it
cancel 'em harder next time.
I still have 6 months on my subscription - if I cancel I can keep using it until that time is up while I decide on a replacement?
Yes. I cancelled almost 2 years ago hoping they would improve by the time it was up but now I only have a month left to sort a new service 😭
I got a pro rata refund, but I had to ask for it
After those discussions with leadership and the board, “We’ve decided to actually cancel the re-interviews,” Yen said. “Why? Well, I think actually in a, let’s say, unintentional way, they have actually already served their purpose.” As in, employees are now talking and learning about AI.
These morons just don’t know when to quit.
Everybody needs to see You Can See Everything, and then needs to remember that all these fuckers are Liz Holmes.
So they admit it was all about scaring the peasants?
It‘s ridiculous. They claim they actually have a shortage of highly skilled developers and that‘s supposedly why they‘re focusing so hard on vibe coding. But this whole re-interviewing thing would just have made their actual problem of a toxic work environment of fear and shaming even worse. Who would want to work there? Not someone who has the privilege to choose. They needed to get rid of that CEO yesterday.
This guy sounds so fucking emotionally fragile and immature. Wahhh go faster, wahhh make me more money!
When you foment a toxic workplace like this, the good employees leave and you get fucked, especially in a security conscious space like this.
Can you use AI to improve security? Yes. It’s objectively very good at finding holes, which is exactly what you want. But when you call your employees losers and tell them they need to be faster, and whatever the fuck an AI “re-interview is”, well you can get bent.
Their main selling points are privacy and security. Moving fast in all directions at once is the last thing you want to hear a company like that is doing
that would be like debian going from their tried-and-true two year cadence to letting claude do everything and release whenever it spits something out.
Debian would become rolling release. As in, rolling directly off a cliff
whatever the fuck an AI “re-interview is”
Its you, claude and andy alone in a room for 20 minutes with a bunch of tokens
andy doesn’t speak, he only types and farts
“We’re not making money fast enough so let’s alienate our core userbase and create a toxic work environment! That will surely be a success!”
This 100% actually stopped me from moving my mail hosting to Proton. I’m looking at Tuta now and alternatives. And it’s not even the AI stuff so much as his insane toxic behaviour towards his people…the AI psychosis is almost secondary…
What are the options out there for email?
The only other free option that I know of is Tuta, and it doesn’t have VPN or cloud storage like Proton does. I’m holding my breath hoping the Tuta management team doesn’t turn out ot be assholes tooo…
Cloud storage is coming. I’m keeping an eye on Tuta to move across to
I use tuta for mail and private internet access for VPN. Since it is well priced with port forwarding included.
That I know of? Runbox, Tuta and a handful of others…but those two I like.
I’ve been using PurelyMail
Making money hasn’t been the goal for some time. Fascists have realized that the planet won’t be able to sustain more than ~1billion people, very soon. They are hogging resources, land, water, etc through datacenters and other means to become the judge of who lives and who dies. And they will decide based on “eugenical” (aka racist, ableist, other-ist) factors for the plebs, and of course every CEO and investor wants to be on the panel instead of being judged by the panel. That’s why the seemingly panicky decisions.
They are right about the planet.
It’s on us to get to 1billion through more peaceful, controlled, multi-generational ways for the common people, and starting by punishing fascist behavior with the necessary consequences.
Cancelled my subscription too.
My subscription end in march, and I won’t renew it.
Good part, I have 4 months to find an alternative.
I sent them an email asking to confirm or correct these allegations.
Not really expecting anything other than coorporate BS in return, but then I’ve atleast let them know one more person dislikes this shit.
Not just the slopware, but also the blatant attack on workers rights.Unless they appologize publicly, I’m not renewing in May either. Credit card is already removed to stop auto renewal.
What is the goal?
If the CEO apologize, yeah great fine. I already saw a lot of megalomaniac CEO apologize for their shity behaviour. Yeah I’m talking about GAFAM.
But it’s not enough.
A CEO change, yeah OK, why not. He will certainly get a huge golden parachute paid by our subscriptions.
Will the entreprise culture change? I’m not sure about that. Look at Boeing.
I chose the proton suite for differents reasons, one of them was the promise of privacy for my data. Pushing code without taking time to test everything mean chaos.
And the risks of something going wrong or extremely wrong is huge enough for me to say the trust relationship is broken.
I won’t enable this BS, and I won’t fund the golden parachute of a asshat CEO with my money.
Honestly, it’s always a balance between my morality and convenience/price.
I find it harder and harder to find any company at all with a clean enough record to be “worthy” of my business.
What Proton has done now goes beyond what I am willing to support, and I dislike the treatment of workers more than I dislike the increase in usage of LLM.
At the same time, backlash is usually an efficient way to force companies to change course, which is why I bothered for the first time ever to formulate an email to complain.
Will it make a difference this time? I doubt it.
But I’m hoping for a “No Mans Sky”-turnaround as I quite enjoy their product suite.Time will tell.
At the same time, backlash is usually an efficient way to force companies to change course
I have serious doubt about that.
Look at facebook, Cambridge analytica, leaks of ton of personal data, again and again, political ingerence, hate content.
I can’t remember how many times they said ‘whooops my bad, won’t happen again’, ‘oooooh again?! Hahaha whooopsy’
And suckerberg ils still there.
Hehe yeah, like I wrote myself: it probably won’t make a difference, but at least I tried.
If every customer they have did the same, they might revert, but most people don’t care I guess.Next step is a boycott and then I sleep better at night.
I swear that money nukes brain cells.
“Due to insufficient velocity,” Proton is not on track to achieve its annual recurring revenue target by the end of the year, one internal document obtained by 404 Media reads. Proton’s year-over-year growth is also “far away from what the market today considers to be good,” and, “By all metrics that matter, we’re an underperforming company.”
What a bunch of imbeciles. People that use Proton are in it because they value security and privacy. Any AI produced code that’s not vetted is inherently insecure, and a huge “fuck you” to privacy as a whole.
“We’re no tmaking enough money fast enough, let’s go the slop-route”. Fucking idiot, what do you think is going to happen the moment the security crowd and the privacy crowd hear about this?
I for one have been preparing to jump ship from my family plan subscription the moment it expires, precisely because of this bullshit Yen has been pushing in the last year or so, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.
I do believe that Yen started proton from a good place, but as is natural for these fuckers, the sight of money completely replaces whatever working segments of their brains were working with shit.
… and it is only in so far as the appropriation of even more and more wealth in the abstract becomes the sole motive of his operations, that he functions as a capitalist, that is, as capital personified and endowed with consciousness and a will.
I swear that money nukes brain cells.
You’re not wrong. When people get a sufficient amount of wealth or political power, they end up surrounded by sycophants who want a taste of their sweet lucre, or to have that power directed towards a specific agenda, or just to be adjacent to privilege.
Compare the environment that induces AI psychosis.
The effect happens at small scale too. An experiment involving Monopoly games in which one person (chosen at random) got bonus money and turns, the privileged player would get louder, eat more of the snacks and attribute their victory to their skill rather than their bonuses.
Can you link to source? Would love to read this.
Look up Paul Piff, who’s the social psychologist who set up the experiment. He did a TED talk on the experiment, Does Money Make You Mean?
I heard about it first on Gary’s Economics’ YouTube video on Elon Musk.
Thanks. Pretty insightful.
What are the good alternatives for an all in one privacy service like Proton?
None.
You have to self host your own. Don’t trust anyone with your data. It’s hard to do, specially for email, but sadly it’s the only way.
Yeah, I’ve been test-driving stalwart with encryption and shit in a VPS, so far it’s been pretty solid. Using SMTP2Go as a backend for sending to avoid the risk of having my VPS IP blacklisted if something goes wrong.
The moment our subscription ends, if everything keeps going as good with stalwart, I’m jumping ship immediately.
I canceled my sub today.
Zero interest in using a product voluntarily that’s clearly not being tested adequately. I get enough of that having to use MS Teams at work, which has really just become whatever buggy crap MS’ vibe coders feel like vomiting into production in a given day.
“Right now, everything seems consistent with it being damage control,” they said.
Oh dear.
What’s the consensus on a replacement for Proton?
I’ve seen Tuta mentioned the most
I’ve been very happy with Fastmail. A while back out of the blue they released a Flatpak app which is great. They also recently stood up a European region and I switched my data residency there without fuss.
I didn’t know they had a European region. Where’s the setting for data residency?
Process here: https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/16796454162063-Choosing-your-data-residency
Took all of 10 minutes for the migration to complete for me
Fantastic. Thank you.
Edit- oh, reading through, even with an EU data residency there is a copy domiciled in the US. 🙁
For now. If they get enough interest in the EU region I foresee them standing up a second location for DR there.
i can recommend mailbox.org and ente.com
When switching over to a paid mail service like this, do you start by forwarding all your your emails from google (or another service) and then slowly start migrating accounts to the new mail address?
Or is there anything I might be missing?
Mailbox looks interesting to me, and have really been wanting to ditch my gmail, it’s the last thing I have left under Google at the moment.
i started by switching accounts mailadresses for all regular services ( also switched to duckduckgo mail forwarding and set the mailbox.org address there for normal Website accounts). Then i just included mailbox.org account in my Thunderbird Konfiguration and with this just drag and dropped the Mails Form Gmail to Mailbox folder. Only downside to this is that those Mails would not become encrypted in mailbox Servers in contrast to normally received Mails. i would advise against mass forwarding old mails, because it would make mail search much harder as they would get tagged with the new receiving date instead of the original one (this is hard for yearly tax return notices if you are looking for orders and receipts received by mail in a particular year), same with the Sender (now your old mailadress instead oft original).
You can definitely do that, but most people that use paid service providers for email usually own their own domain as well, so they will reconfigure their dns records from Google Works info to the new provider
If you don’t have a domain and only want to get rid of gmail forwarding is the way to go
If I happen to have a domain, but only have a free tier of gmail can I still do the DNS recognition you mentioned?
For what exactly? I store my photos on pCloud and for email I use Posteo
I use cloud storage (lots of files), email, password manager, and vpn. Sometimes collaborative writing in documents. I’d like to not have lots of subscriptions. Maybe managed nextcloud + separate email provider? Idk.
Whatever you decide to migrate to, don’t put all of your eggs in one basket. Give yourself the flexibility to move one enshittified service at a time.
I use a mix of Tuta, mailbox.org (for one of my other domains), vaultwarden/bitwarden, and nextcloud.
ikr I only use Proton for throwaway accounts, lel.
Nextcloud was great for getting me de-Googled. I use it for contacts, calendars, notes, files storage, photo uploads.
Everything self-hosted and backed up with snapshot every few hours.
Putting all of those eggs in the same basket will come back to bite you in the ass the same way andy just did
I wouldnt want my mail man cooking my food, wiping my ass and doing my taxes while on their regular route, at best that will just result in them sleeping with my dog
Protons CEO is a weapons grade assclown.
He seems like the waste byproduct of real tech bro oligarchs.
Well put
Way to get your people happy and productive dipshit. This cancellation is far too late. Now employees are going to keep their heads down, take zero risks and merely check whatever boxes required. He demotivated his entire workforce in one fell swoop. And for people like me who wasn’t using their product or know much about them, now I have a foul taste in my mouth for the brand name.
