the incompetence of this guy holy.
Next will be teslas without airbags. Because why not.
Adaptive cruise control is good enough for most people and has been a proven technology for 20+ years. FSD is just downright dangerous.
I like my car’s version that’s just adaptive cruise control combined with using lidar maps of major roads to do lane-centering. I can go on a road trip and not touch the gas, break, or steering wheel for hours, but I have to drive it myself through residential neighborhoods.
This is good enough imo!
Why do we continue to allow this company to exist and break the law?
Texas
Corruption
Money
By these powers combined…
Need jammers to confuse and break Teslas. They’re weapons designed to break laws and protect occupants at the expense of bystanders. Can’t be mad if a bystander redirects your Tesla into a ditch.
as long as it doesn’t break the other ones. not all of the safety features we’ve developed in the last quarter century are bullshit
protect occupants
It doesn’t even do that. You crash a tesla and start a fire, it will glady lock you in the car.
Can’t have too many witnesses after all.
He’s been real quiet lately. No more talks of release the list or the America Party. Did his K plug go on vacation?
Now trump is black bagging US citizens in broad daylight, and Musk is an immigrant who fully admitted that he originally entered the country illegally. The danger must have creeped its way through his ketamine addled brain.
Musk also has a private army of security contractors (and someone like him probably has mercenaries off killing people in other countries too)
he’s far too much trouble to go after, if you’re DHS, regardless if you’re Trump DHS or Democrat DHS. someone like that is ungovernable.
He didnt buy ihs gold plated visa?
Maybe while he was doing the DOGE thing he changed his status.
They finally did it. They automated crime 👍
FSD as it is currently with human supervision is 10x safer than driving without FSD. Source Tesla 2025 Q2 report vs reports from NHTSA.
Edit: some time in and I’ve only gotten
ad hominem responsesinsults and downvotes. Please make a convincing argument that I’m wrong or maybe realize you’re just downvoting facts you don’t like if you don’t bring your own.Source Tesla 2025 Q2 report
uhhhhhhh
Those are financial documents if they’re lying and you can prove it sue them and make some money lol
The key is “with human supervision”. Calling it Full Self Driving with “Supervised” in parentheses aftwards while putting out videos where they say the only reason there’s some behind the wheel is because of regulations (those annoying “regulations” amirite?) leads people to think they don’t really need to supervise the driving of the car.
Couple that with the fact that there are actual full self driving cars (Waymo) there’s even greater confusion.
People have been killed because of the misconceptions about Telsa cars actually being full self driving. Which they aren’t, they cheap out on the hardware needed for that to be possible, let alone the software.
I agree the terminology is misleading and should be changed. If you’ve ever driven in one no driver with it on can be confused, the system will yell at you to look at the road.
Waymo is ahead right now in geofenced areas for sure, I like Waymo, this post was just specifically about Tesla.
Whether FSD is possible with out LiDAR is still an open question, but I think the safety personnel in Austin will be removed soon which will answer that question.
You know what, you’re right.
You know what has an even better safety track record than a car with FSD supervised by a human?
Trains.
If your concern is actually safety, advocate for the safest methods of transportation - mass public transit, coupled with pedestrian- and bicycle-safe roads, and advocate against passenger cars, in any form.
I would love walkable cities. I frequently bike to work you’ll get no disagreement from me there.
I can’t think of a less trustworthy source. Rolling a pile of dice with words on them is likely to tell the truth more often.
Or try this link from the government of Austin Link
Fair enough. The NHTSA probe is for 2.9 million vehicles and 53 incidents. That is far below the level of incidents humans have over that span of vehicles for any appreciable level of drive time.
The same NHTSA that had its employees removed from these probes by the person being investigated?
Do you think a car that alerts you if you look away from the road and forces you to pay attention or you lose your ability to use the new features is less safe than a vehicle that is unaware if the driver is texting/sleeping or whatever?
What type of source would you trust on this? If you don’t trust NHTSA what is your basis for saying Tesla FSD is unsafe?
the safest thing to do, is to not drive at all! I never trusted humans anyways, with their strange motivations, and how inconsistent their behavior. its best if we let go and let the machines take us where they will
No disagreement that the safer option is not driving at all.
I don’t think a car driving itself where you tell it is giving up human self determination tho.
Do you think Tesla invented that concept? Also clearly the systems don’t work. There are literally pornographic films of people fucking in the back seat while nobody is driving.
I agree that it is incredibly harmful that we don’t have any scientific institutions that we can trust now that the Nazi ruined them. There is no replacement.
I never claimed that Tesla invented that system just stated that cars with it (teslas others) are safer than the majority of ones without.
Your second sentence is impossible with the way the system works, perhaps pornos aren’t good sources for accurate information?
If there’s no replacement for solid trustworthy data in your mind I don’t think this is a worthwhile conversation if you will trust literally no source.
Are you really rejecting reality? Just go on YouTube and you can find plenty of non-porn videos of people defeating the shitty attention system. I just chose porn as an example to show just how absurd your trust in Daddy Nazi’s lies is.
I don’t have stats, but my personal feeling is that car safety features trump full self driving.
Eg, you are actively driving (which ensures you are engaged and dont fall asleep, etc), but if the car sees something it can react (drifting out of lane, car slows down ahead of you, person walks in road, etc).
That seems so much safer in my opinion.
(That works for driving around town, ofc I think adaptive cruise control + the above safety features is safe for highways, etc)
For the moment absolutely, that’s why the system requires your attention and will lock you out of using it fairly quickly if you are distracted. Tesla drivers on FSD are forced by their car to pay attention to the road. Surely people can see how that alone makes it safer than all of the cars that don’t know their driver is texting or whatever in a car that can’t drive itself at all.
Tesla drivers on FSD are forced by their car to pay attention to the road.
i’ve personally seen this not to be true and it’s not hard to find videos verifying my position.
Could you please share a video showing this demonstrated on version 13.2.9? I will happily watch and admit you were right if you can find a video of the current version being easily tricked.
If it can ensure you are looking at the road, that sounds good.
Not sure if it seems as safe as you in full operation of the car for turns etc around town, but its a good safety feature to ensure you arent distracted.
Not only can it, it is a required part of FSD. You can not operate it without it making sure your eyes are on the road. Every source looking at actual incidents per mile driven shows that FSD (and Waymo and the others) is already safer than human drivers. I’d be happy to be proven wrong on that.
There are incidents. It’s not perfect, but right now that’s why humans must still be actively paying attention.
Bot found
Did you even look at my account/post history?
Yes.
Tesla autopilot performs better than humans per mile because it runs mostly on the freeway which has a far lower chance of accidents per mile than slower city areas which are more difficult to navigate.
So you admit I’m not a bot? A persistent chiefs fan is a real person.
Removed by mod
Care to respond to my argument with reason or evidence and not resort to ad-hominem?
that wasn’t an ad hominem, it was an insult
Calling me stupid is attacking my character in my view but sure I mislabeled it when it was an insult. Your point?
When a self driving car breaks the law, the CEO should get the demerit points on their own licence, and if they lose their licence, the cars can’t drive anymore.
Somebody needs to be responsible, otherwise ban self driving until someone figures it out. Impound the vehicle if need be.
What? You can’t just demand accountability from AI bros, that would destroy their whole business model.
CEOs like you’re talking about, they dont drive.
the only time they’ll step behind the wheel of a car is for a pleasure cruise in some multi million dollar supercar on a track, or a closed / private road.
So what? Them driving is not relevant to this at all. The idea is that the cars they sell become illegal.
The second one of these cars cause a fatal collision due to wanton disregard of the law on part of the CEO, he should be held criminally liable.
That has already happened…like a handful of times at least.
They shouldn’t even be able to market it as self driving if they don’t insure the self driving mode itself.
That would be funny but better yet, the entire line of cars gets the feature deleted from them and customers are reimbursed the entire value of the car plus interest in exchange for having risked their lives testing an unstable and dangerous vehicle.
bail out the idiots that bought cybertrucks?
eehhhh…
This hurts Tesla more
Remember when Elon said how self driving would make roads safer?
I do remember when musky boy said lies. Many, many lies…
you, too, can die at the hands of AI and become forever enshrined as algorithmic data to help improve Tesla’s subscription services sales to the very wealthy and hostile
Yep. This is inevitable. Whenever we get to the point where consumers are controlling the aggression of the self driving, which will happen no matter laws are past.
Ultimately it’s all just code on hardware.
Tesla is definitely doing their fuck around, still waiting to find out on this one. Eventually that liability will catch up with them. The question is months, years, or decades.
I drive a Tesla. I live in Connecticut, speed limits are set very low and are ignored by just about everybody Including police, as long as you’re not driving recklessly.
The problem with the latest FSD versions is they take precise speed control out of the driver’s hands. In previous versions, you could manually set a maximum speed. Now you cannot, you only pick one of these driving profiles.
So for example if I’m driving on a 55 mph highway, and all the other cars are doing 75 mph, I have to pick the ‘Hurry’ profile which also hangs out in the left lane and makes a lot of lane changes and faster acceleration/braking. I would much rather drive standard style but with higher speed, but that isn’t an option.
Or… you could just drive yourself.
There are easier ways to get yourself killed and they don’t also put families in harm’s way
FSD does not mean push the button and take a nap. I am still attentive to the road while it is in use. I believe it actually makes me a safer driver, because I can focus more attention on maintaining overall situational awareness of the world around the car, without needing to focus on the task of staying in lane and maintaining the correct speed.
I drive a tesla
Self own, tbh.
Spyware on wheels won’t let me break the law
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not saying this as an insult, I am simply stating a fact that you are completely and totally mistaken.
Do you live in an alternate reality where Tesla employees didn’t get caught sharing camera footage from inside peoples garages and stuff just because they thought it was funny?
You are driving a nazi car.
Why use FSD though if you would still need to pay attention and be ready to take over the car? I understand cruise control to a degree but the other stuff I dont see how its helpful to rely on a computer that can malfunction at any moment.
Finally an actual intelligent question that isn’t just ‘fuck Tesla’.
FSD has gotten very very good. On the highway, it is a better driver than I am. I have had my car for a few years, I have driven many hundreds of hours on FSD, and it has only really tried to do something stupid twice, both of them some time ago on much older software. I don’t even have the most recent software because my car is computer is generation 3, I’m running the last one that was available for HW3 (version 12) but I have a lot of time on it so I am quite familiar with what it can and cannot do.
As such, I gain trust by experience, by watching it perform. So I know which situations I can trust it to do the right thing, and which situations I cannot.That means in one of the situations where I trust it, such as on the highway, I can turn it on and leave it the task of staying in lane and maintaining speed. I can focus my attention then on maintaining overall situational awareness of the world around the car. Even if I am doing something else like eating a sandwich, which would otherwise distract my attention and make me a less safe driver, I feel the result is overall more safe because the computer is watching 360° around the car and I am maintaining situational awareness of what I can see. I believe this creates the most safe situation.
Using highway driving like that, there have been a couple situations where the car reacted to something that I hadn’t even seen yet and potentially avoided an accident. For example, there was one situation where a very reckless driver was coming up from behind in the right lane and merging into our lane. I didn’t see it because I was looking forward, Tesla did because the cameras are looking everywhere. Tesla’s reaction was to slow down and change lanes away from the guy, which was the correct response. The car started reacting before I was even aware of the threat, and because the car had already cleared the space it was changing lanes into, it was able to start that lane change faster than I could because I would have looked over the shoulder first…
There have also been a few situations where I reacted to something the car was not reacting to yet and while it would not have resulted in an accident, it did increase safety by my intervention. Basic example is I am in the far right lane, there is an entry exit lane to the right which is ending and I know it is ending but the car doesn’t necessarily. I know the car slightly ahead and to the right of me is going to have to merge into my lane, so I manually slow down the car to give him a space to come in whereas Tesla would have just maintained speed and he would have had to slow down and go behind me.
I would strongly encourage you to disregard a lot of The crap you read in the news and online, much of it written by people who intrinsically hate Elon and anything he has ever touched, and go test drive the car. I’m not saying go buy the car, I’m saying go have the experience of actually using FSD so you can see first hand exactly what it is like.
I simply dont see a benefit to the technology in my own life. I’m willing to hear others give their experience though. I think for me, whether its a better driver or not is secondary to accountability. I’m accountable for my mistakes, whereas a co pany like tesla has many many reasons why they should avoid accountability.
If FSD were a state or federal government initiative with the goal of improving society, I think that would go a long way. At least something like that.
All these L2 systems (not just Tesla’s) really do lower the cognitive load and makes things easier, even if you still have to pay attention.
Remember when you were learning to drive and making sure you did everything right took up a lot of your cognitive ability while driving, maybe you couldn’t even carry on a conversation and drive, and as you got more experienced, a lot of it became second nature, and the load on driving became less?
Well that load is still there, it’s just less, and this can lower it further even if you are still having to pay attention.
I’m saying the problem is that it lowers the mental load, which lowers reaction timing. You might be able to counter that by paying attention as much with FSD as without, but then you are gaining nothing but extra risk.
Is there a reason you want to reduce the mental load as much as possible? If I were driving 4+hours per day its possible I might be more likely to agree with you but thats just a guess.
Lowering the mental load of having to maintain speed and lane does not mean you’re not paying attention and able to take over.
It means you have more time to be aware of what’s going on around you, while still paying attention to what it’s handling for you.
Saying you gain nothing but risk because you still pay attention just isn’t true. There is still a gain, even with any added risk.
Stop and go traffic, and long drives it really helps.
When you say it helps, is this just in general mental well being from less stress from driving? Is it purely convenience? I personally dont find driving to be stressful in my life but again I dont have a long commute.
I do drive a manual in rush hour periodically, I dont see how FSD helps there though? I’d still need to be ready to hit the brake if the car malfunctions wouldnt I?
Ya, mental well being and less stress sounds about right. Going for a couple hour drive and using it for even a part of it can leave me feeling better off when I get to my destination.
It’s not something I always turn on for entire trips either, I still do a mix of both, but lets say I’m on a 2hour trip and I’ve been driving regularly for 30 minutes and I’m starting to feel it, I can turn it on and there’s just this instant noticeable reduction, but then maybe there’s some construction or something ahead where I want to take over, so I take over and then drive the next 30 minutes myself again.
The best analogy is probably just regular cruise control if you’ve ever used it. You still gotta pay attention and be ready to alter your speed, but you’re not suddenly forgetting about speed while it’s on, but you’re also not getting worn down by having to maintain it manually.
For example - Feeling frustrated or annoyed by that car in front of you that’s constantly slowing down so you always have to be modulating your speed, but you can’t necessarily pass? Well it can just follow it and modulate it for you, well I can assure you, it’s less annoying when you don’t have to manage that yourself.
You always need to be ready to brake or press the accelerator depending on the situation, and I move my foot around depending on the situation. Just driving on the open highway, I’ll be ready for the accelerator in case of any phantom braking, coming up to a light with another vehicle in front of me, I’ll move it to the brake until it’s clear the car is braking at my comfort level. It’s all situational, and if you’re paying attention like you’re supposed to be, it’ll just be natural on which one you are prepared for.
Stop and go traffic it’s just making sure it does actually stop as it inches forward a few feet and needs to come to a stop again but without needing to actually manage it myself.
so ppl can get even more reliant on technology and would be downright dangerous behind the wheel of an older vehicle? awesome…
Recently read a book on the Nudge effect and it mentioned it taking upwards of 40 seconds for a human to re-establish control of an automated vehicle. Is not having to worry about traffic and your place in it when using “automated” driving part of the appeal? I guess not breaking the law isn’t quite decadent enough for Tesla owners.
As the parent commenter who actually drives the Tesla, this is absolute bullshit. It does not take me any 40 seconds to reestablish control. FSD is not push the button and take a nap. If it was, it might take me 40 seconds to wake up, take a sip of coffee, stretch and yawn, tilt my chair back up, and then look around the car. But that is not the case.
FSD requires driver attention to the road. Even if the computer is driving, I am still paying attention to what is going on and if anything maintaining a higher level of situational awareness because I can spread my attention around the car without having to focus on staying in the lane. If I want to take over I literally just do it, apply any control input and I’m back in control. Turn the wheel, hit the gas, hit the brake, the car responds immediately.
Driving on residential streets I will often go in and out of FSD frequently, the version I have is not as good with complex intersections and knowing when it is our turn for example. So I’ll let it drive along and stay in the lane, then when we get to the intersection I’ll take over, then when we get to the other side I’ll go back on FSD. There is no 40 second delay anywhere.
I would strongly encourage you to go test drive the car. I’m not saying buy one, I’m saying just so that you can understand what exactly the system does and does not do. Don’t take that knowledge from what you read online, much of it written by people with an agenda either pro-Tesla or anti-Tesla. Go experience it for yourself and decide for yourself based on first hand knowledge If it’s a dangerous piece of shit or a useful tool.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried on a rental (about a year ago), but it felt too gimmicky to be useful. It constantly wanted me to jerk the wheel, and would randomly turn itself off otherwise. Despite the fact I still had both my hands on the wheel, and the camera sensor should have noticed I was constantly looking at the road.
And then the few times it stayed active for a longer period, I was even more bored than usual with driving, and I didn’t feel much safer. Especially with country roads, it was constantly doing the speed limit instead of slightly slowing down in the few areas without fences (wildlife running into the road), and it was also happy to drive through a long and deep visible pool of water on the highway at like 110km/hr.
It’d be different if Tesla had LiDAR, but nah, it’s not for me. I’m glad you like it though.
Lidar wouldn’t have solved any of the issues you described. It also doesn’t solve the issues waymo frequenly has, where you’d say wtf didn’t lidar stop that? People are putting too much faith on lidar being a magic bullet. All these l2/AVs still need much better capabilities to process visual queues that lidar won’t help with.
Like a waymo literally drove into a telephone pole, WITH lidar. They all need better brains.
For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then moving at highway speeds? I don’t think 40 seconds is a stretch at all.
Also, the smug self-assurance of a Tesla owner does little more than reveal just why people feel the way they do about this kind of person. So certain in the technology and other Tesla owners that concerns over the bicycle rider or the pedestrian become little more than background noise.You really have no idea what your talking about thinking it takes 40s.
Parent comment described it accurately.
I think there’s a distinction to make between driver assistance technologies and how drivers become reliant on automation. Because otherwise, should we not have automatic transmission, either?
I got a tesla and I don’t fucking trust that shit to not slam me in to a barrier
And all the innocent people that get splattered in the process will just be chimps shot into space
I don’t agree with the notion that chimps are less life-worthy than humans.
I don’t agree with the notion either.
Tesla agrees, and all the federal/state/local officials that turn a blind eye to public roads being used as a testing ground for very flawed software.
Yes, that is the point I was making in my original statement
They didn’t pay for the car, so why do they get a say right?
Sarcasm.
Simple. They buy a don’t run me over subscription. The free market triumphs once again /s
I’M BUYING MY VERIFICATION CAR DAMMIT STOP SWERVING AT ME
Hmm “don’t run me over” insurance! I’m gonna start a business around this idea.
Can an insurance company get insurance in case it ever has to pay out? Cause I foresee a lot of payouts unless your insurance comes with force fields
which comes with higher speeds and more frequent lane changes
Go kiss a concrete pillar, ya duds
Since it seems to be unsafe at any speed, why not.
I mean, yeah. True. But to push back a little, driving at the actual speed of traffic is often safer than driving the official speed limit.
The real world and written law don’t always line up, the speed limit is one of those areas.
Certainly, especially when it comes to things like MERGING which is an arcane art to some.
Because now it can hurt others going even faster
Maybe it comes with a “scape the police over the border” bottom.
Since it’s Elon more likely to go directly to the police station
Because there are levels of unsafe and this is more unsafe
The less time you’re at the cars mercy…
