It is clear that the signal to noise ratio of the WWW is getting worse. It’s much harder to find good content when using a good old search engine. And if it’s good it is usually hosted on Reddit or Stackexchange.
So remember, even if it’s easy too Google something (well, it isn’t nowadays), we want to create a fediverse of good content that helps people (I hope). So, it’s always better to write a real answer if you have the time and energy. Please help boost the SNR and reverse the AI fueled information degradation loop.
I agree even though I will sarcastically answer things with how easy it was to find, but I still give the information. I ask questions about things I could google myself, but I am not looking for just and answer. oftentimes Im looking for a nuanced answer and hope to find someone with knowledge around the subject that can give me a human take. not that I need a human take to know whats human because im so human myself and all. its not alien at all to me and hey who said anything about aliens. heh. heh.
The amount of times I’ve googled a problem, and the first result is a forum post of someone just being told to google it then locking the thread is way too high.
Not sure if everyone knows this, but: if you don’t want to answer the question—you don’t have to post a reply! Crazy idea, I know.
I don’t actually own this, but I saw it used once 10 years by my fathers aunts best friend. I guess it would work for what you need it for.
Ah come now my dear sir/madam/xir, who can’t resist a bit of trolling here and a google-it there.
Never thought I would see anybody call having to scroll past some sponsored links and reddit results “hard”. Compared to what, farting? Honestly folks, after 2025 we’ll probably all have a different view of what’s easy and what’s hard.
It’s not hard. It’s that information from people has become more fact than a single persons opinion on a topic. Do you have any idea how many variables are involved in why my cucumbers are dying in my green house? How many links and articles I’ve read before just asking it to the community and finding the answer in literally the first person who replied?
Information, wisdom, knowledge are all empowered by a community, and trusting a search engine to populate those will eliminate the community aspect of information gathering. It’ll cause the watered down, lost in information practices that we have going on today.
Doing this, in 30 years no one will be able to grow cucumbers in their greenhouse becuase all the information you’ll have will be based off the same shitty technique and everyone’s attempt at that technique, and no one will talk about the nuanced variables.
The cucumbers is an example.
So many times I google something obscure, the top result is the same question asked on some forum with a single reply, “just google it”
The only thing worse than someone saying just Google it is an op replying to their own post saying, never mind fixed it! (Without actually saying the solution).
“What did you see, DenverCoder9?!?!”
There is always an xkcd!
yeah i really hate that
and worse, it’s a thread from 17 years ago and apparently nobody else except you has had the issue since.
or it’s a reddit post that once contained the answer but has been deleted in protest.
Don’t tell me what to do.
Found the guy who grew up listening to rage against the machine, who now uses machines to rage against the humans who want him to rage against the machine…but fuck you I won’t do what ya tell me! Fuck you I won’t do what ya tell me! Fuck you I won’t do what ya tell me! Fuck you I won’t do what ya tell me! (UGH!) guitar solo
Who?
“Check the documentation” should absolutely be a retort though.
One of my least favorite things about the fediverse (and especially Discord and Reddit) is members asking the same simple question hundreds of times because they didn’t bother to do a simple search and didn’t bother to check obvious documentation.
They didn’t know the documentation exists? OK, I will happily show you, and show you how to find it in general. Question only partially novel? Great, I will link an old answer and explain the rest… But I am kinda fed up with how “ephemeral” social media is, which is by design, as that repetitiveness increases engagement dramatically. Many forums should be structured more like a wiki, and its users should reflect that.
That kind of behavior can also be a sign that the documentation is hard to find or hard to comprehend. Or that something isn’t documented at all, but the seniors imagine it is, because the answer is obvious to them.
Me. This is me. I’m trying to figure out linux.
“How do I do…something”
“Oh, that’s easy! Just do this and this and this. Make sure you check that that and that.”
“Ok…now how do I do the things you just said?”
“Just do those things the right way.”
“I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THOSE TERMS MEAN, LET ALONE HOW TO DO THEM!!!”
“Ugh, this guy can’t even follow simple directions. What part of that do you not understand???”
“Uhhhhhh…core concepts?”
Check the documentation can be pretty useless a lot of times. The docs aren’t always great or they’re huge and I have a specific question. Often times I do check them, but they’re incomplete or unclear. Or the docs change or the links die.
Just answer the question anyway and then say where you found it.
If you say as much in your question, you’re much less likely to get someone saying “rtfm”.
Maybe they read the documentation and the documentation doesn’t clearly answer their question.
You can always just ignore their question if you don’t want to answer. Let someone else do it.
Rtfm and LMGTFY by themselves aren’t useful. They’re the equivalent of posting “me too”.
If you think that the answer is in the manual and they haven’t read it, post a link to the manual. Double helpful if you reference the section.
If you think the answer is on Google, I think we can assume everyone knows to try that first, so then no reply is needed. If it’s a particularly tricky search to phrase, maybe help with a link with a searchable phrase in it.
But not replying is always a useful thing to do if you’re not adding to the conversation.
Right, and sealioning is also a thing. If we are having a conversation where there is a presumed knowledge of some basic informationor background, I’m not going to sit here and restate that entire basis just because you got in over your head.
To me this is where communities having a maintained wiki is great. More than once it’s saved me from asking a question that’s already been answered a hundred times before.
Lemmy documentation is fucking terrible.
Ive submitted PRs for documentation to some Foss projects (not just in the fediverse space) that were rejected by the owners.
It is some FOSS projects intention to intentionally add obscurity to their product, specifically when they monetize by paid hosting.
Funny, I wrote plenty of documentation and release notes. In some cases I even got direct commit permissions to the repositories after a while.
And if monetized projects want to have obscure docs: edit the Arch wiki.
Yeah, me too. Im not suggesting all devs are assholes, but Lemmy is one example.
When that happens I do publish the docs online and call out the devs for back stabbing their community.
If someone actually wants help searching Lemmy or the Fediverse, I recommend this site: https://fedi-search.com/
Very simple, but it does the job. It’s also good if one wants to learn advanced Google queries.
Unfortunately it doesn’t work in Tor Browser
Correct.
Use udm14.org instead.
I don’t get it. I entered a search term and I was just redirected to regular Google.
The difference is you’re not getting ads or AI. It’s basically google from 2010.
Seems great, thanks for sharing!
For context: https://tedium.co/2024/05/17/google-web-search-make-default/
I got redirected to regular Google. If that’s only supposed to be a different landing page, I can just as well search from the address bar.
shrugs
Use something else then. Cheers.
Thanks for sharing!
I prefer DuckDuckGo, but federated SearXNG exists too (but imo it’s not as good as DDG)
All good choices, but udm14.org filters out ads too.
As a software engineer…
Don’t just say “just Google it”. Guide them to the documentation. Ask them about the detail of the question. If it’s an bug, try asking them if they can reproduce the bug.
This reminded me of the time I’m looking for how to do certain things in a software. I found a reddit post asking about the same issue and this is the reply OP got:
Here is the link: https://old.reddit.com/r/i3wm/comments/mupjsf/how_to_showhide_i3status_bar_taskbar/
Imagine. You search the issue you have. Found the ONLY reddit thread that talks about this, and the ONLY thread that talks about the issue have NO USEFUL ANSWER and, worse, the only reply is TELLING YOU TO SEARCH IT YOURSELF. This got upvoted too 😭😭😭.
Luckily, I found the solution (tbh the solution was there in the docs, but the wording wasn’t clear and it makes it hard to search) and I end up replying the OP the actual answer.
So, this is a PSA for the fediverse: be nice. It’s free.
While we’re still young, we have a chance to become a better forum.
Also possibly an unpopular opinion: you shouldn’t downvote a question, even if it was asked multiple times. Guide them to the answer instead
Also Google results differ since like a decade. It may show for you in California, but its nowhere to be found for me in Iran
Has this same energy: https://xkcd.com/979/
Even worse is when they edit their post to add “Never mind, figured it out.”
These people should be unable to reproduce. Just as soon as they edit the post, a shriek of agony can be heard for miles.
I ran across an example of this recently, on fucking Github. Bitch it’s your goddamn issue ticket, on a fucking dev site, and you returned to say you figured it out but can’t be fucked to explain how? GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Something, something, recursion.
Wow that is infuriating.
Looks like you solved your problem by RTFM ;-)
I’ve never seen this acronym, but I’m pretty sure it says reading the fucking manual
Just google it.
As funny as that is, I can’t imagine Google would want to hide anything more than this piece of knowledge right here.
ftfy
its a website that has man pages for stuff.
But what about woman pages? smh so much for inclusion
damm true.
That insulting is satisfactory
I reply “search it”
“Google It”
I google
finds 1 link
its a link to a fourm post with the same question
only 1 answer found
answer says “Google It”
🙃
Old Reddit threads where the answer giver deleted their account & all their comments.
That’s why when I left reddit I don’t delete my posts (even if those posts suck)
Bonus:
I can kinda get the sentiment. I left during the protests too and I can see people wanting to damage Reddit, which is also completely deserved. Of course now Reddit is respecting the right to your comments even less and scrapes them for Google’s LLM models.
I did, bc reddit locked up my content, and wanted to use it to train a LLM.
Let people ask again, here, in the fediverse.
That’s assuming we’re able to draw the people with answers here into the fediverse, in the long run.
What gets us there is long term stability.
Grow organically, and they will come.
First, the tech enthusiasts, then tech journos, then normal journos, then normals.
It’s how online spaces grow.
(already had a feeling that someone will say this)
I won’t delete my posts/comments because I want to be helpful, that’s it.
But if I prefer deleting my posts/comments, I will archive it instead.
I respect what r/ArtFundamentals did, and it should be an example: After reddit’s APIpocalypse, they don’t support reddit and decided to close the subreddit. But the advices from the subreddit wasn’t gone–in fact they actually archive it in their own website:
Reddit lost nothing when you deleted your comments, they still exist on their servers and are likely being used to train LLMs now. All that was lost was other peoples ability to readt them
That does hurt Reddits usability for users, though, which is bad for business in general.
And without my.comment, fewer hits because users cannot see it, which means less people provide training data.
No single drop feels responsible for the flood.
Sure thats correct, but I’m a little uneasy with the idea of “burn down a useful resource for people becuase fewer people helped people results in slower increases of data to Reddit”
Or scrambled all of their posts after APIgate (or whatever we’re calling it). Perhaps they came here, which means OP is right in saying we can be a new source of useful answers.
I’m not sure if Lemmy or other Fediverse posts even get indexed by any of the search engines. I’ve yet to see any in a search result.
I don’t feel bad about wiping my account, as almost everything on it was useless.
Also I was pissed off at the time, and my goal was to make more people dislike going on Reddit.
Jesus thank you. And also dont post screenshots of web pages. We’ve gotten much worse since the reddit exodus.
If it’s for textual information, I’m personally a fan of covering all bases. Screenshot, link to site, and quoted relevant text.
Webpages can change, but screenshots can stop being hosted with no warning and any text in screenshot form can’t easily be copy and pasted. Quoted text is essentially the longterm accessible failsafe. Text in comments tends to last much longer than images or links.
Only if they include the link.
I prefer the screenshot to a webpage because
-
If it’s a shit site, I don’t want to give it clicks and revenue
-
News sites have a history of manipulating the title over and more to maximize views
-
Images are easy to scan within the Lemmy app. Versus kicking me to a browser that has to fetch data somewhere.
Posting screenshots of webpages isn’t disallowed.
But posting screenshots of webpages without a link to the source is temp-ban-worthy
-
When I ask someone for clarification via their expertise, I usually reflexively indicate that I cannot trust google because of the incursion of AI slop, and even if it shows THEM accurate results, it is no guarantee that it will show ME those same results.
Yes please don’t do this. Google doesn’t need more support either from search activity or inclusion into the vernacular. If someone is asking in the fediverse which is still a relatively small community, they are expressing a degree of patience with their answer that suggests they’ve already tried search and came up dissapointed or they are really lacidasical about their question and won’t really mind if you just ignore it and move on. Taking the time to tell someone to websearch something is even more pathetic than a “this” reply.
